jandrewrogers2 hours ago
An issue here is that mmap and io_uring require fundamentally different software architectures in a performance context. You shouldn’t swap them out.
APIs like io_uring, combined with O_DIRECT, allow you to design your own workload-specific userspace scheduler from first principles. If you are delegating scheduling to a runtime then you’ve forfeited most of the performance advantages those APIs were designed to provide. In many cases, the performance will be worse. By contrast, mmap implicitly delegates all scheduling decisions and it has some advantages if delegation is your strategy compared to a runtime.
The benefits of io_uring are limited without a commitment to designing your own schedulers. On the upside, skilled scheduler designers can increase performance by substantial integer factors using these APIs versus mmap. Designing application-specific schedulers is not easy, it is a high-skill endeavor. But the reward is real.
Using io_uring well requires going all-in on the software architecture it requires to show what it can do.
laserbeaman hour ago
The real issue here is there's a part 2 (linked at the end of the article) where they get the io_uring implementation to be twice as fast as mmap. So it's a clickbait title for a part 1, which gets resolved in part 2.
So they crunched out 2 articles, one of which is just ragebait. And they both seem LLM written. Maybe they have some cool advice, maybe not... but it's not a format I enjoy reading.
xx_nsan hour ago
I find a lot of LLM articles to be hard to read, but since this one was pretty "straight to the point", I found it to be okay and got the important information across.
The title "The Linux reality check" made me groan, though. LLMs (Claude?) seem to love this phrase.
laserbeam16 minutes ago
The problem is not the LLM writing. The problem is the ragebait title which is unsubstantiated, because of part 2. And they know that because they published it in two parts.
This is basically how you write fake news. And you only publish like this for extra clicks.
londons_explore2 hours ago
There is a pattern in software engineering of:
* Project exists
* New employees come up with idea for efficiency improvement
* Months spent implementing. Old codepath becomes legacy.
* New thing now has extra features bolted on during build.
* Efficiency of new thing turns out worse than original, but now the new features and 'less technical debt' are the drivers.
* New thing launches, old thing deprecated, but there is little real benefit to all those months of work.
sceptic12324 minutes ago
Then they fix the new thing implementation[1] and realise the original gains that were promised
[1](https://www.conviva.ai/resource/making-io_uring-actually-fas...)
jamesfmilne25 minutes ago
Second System Effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect
Coined by Fred Brooks in "The Mythical Man-Month" in 1975.
nottorp2 hours ago
Yay, first article (for me!) that i actually click on because the title is interesting, and then it puts me off because it's LLM generated.
By the way, what does Rust have to do with their problem? Is Rust simply bad at io_uring? :)
orlp2 hours ago
We had a similar experience in Polars trying to use io_uring.
Rust isn't inherently bad at io_uring but at least Tokio currently is. I'm not the one who implemented and benchmarked it so this is second-hand information but if I recall correctly Tokio shares one buffer pool for all threads so as you scale to 100+ threads the whole thing grinds to a halt.
Migrating our I/O to a different async runtime than Tokio was rejected. So we'll wait until it's fixed in Tokio and now use regular blocking reads instead.
cbarnes992 hours ago
Rust is just the language they happened to be working in. If you read through the LLM generated garbage it becomes clear that io_uring isnt the problem, their code was just slop / bad.
nottorp2 hours ago
That was hinted at in the summary for part 2, which i couldn't bring myself to click on.
But my interpretation is still more fun!
PunchyHamster22 minutes ago
...given article being LLM slop their code probably also was
samus2 hours ago
It would have been more precise to say O_DIRECT instead of io_uring. The point of io_uring is to avoid syscall overhead. What they were after was actually managing a page cache on their own, and it turned out to be more complicated than they thought.
muragekibicho2 hours ago
The article's subheadings suggest this is AI slop. Seeing a section titles "The Production Symptom" is a Claudism in itself.
sagacityan hour ago
That heading is the smoking gun.
Tepix2 hours ago
You're absolutely right.
wolfi12 hours ago
production symptom? is this equivalent to "kidney disappointment"?
elendilman hour ago
> The internet is full of posts declaring io_uring wins over mmap.
Internet is also full of idiots not having done their homework.
Blindly throwing io_uring for mmap and hoping for better perfomance in a highly concurrent environment is a recipe for thread contention and latency spike.
Add to that the kernel lock contention on mmap. Later kernels have tried to increasingly mitigate this. But significant latency on kernel lock contention still exists.
Try mmap + numa like pinning (from software atleast via hashing the work id) and always have the same mmap be used from the same node. This usually yields better latency compared to throwing wonder weapons.
Our database Dip uses mmap burst for opening massive amounts of mmaped kv engine files along with numa pinning of the same mmap kv engine file to the same core so as to reduce cross cache contamination and page cache relocation.
io_uring (available only in more modern kernels) has so far only increased Dip's latency. Hence we have no reason yet for using it. It is a net negative for our usecase.
Use io_uring where appropriate and don't expect every mmap replaced by io_uring to do wonders.