Hacker News

> I love that it has a feature to prove images came from the real world

Congrats to Apple achieving nation-wide tracking, embedding some kind of yellow dots[1], but this time this time this is based on strong cryptography and non-removable, targeting people who don't use AI under the slogan "we are fighting AI fakes", but people still "love the feature".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots

> Users can now prove the authenticity of a photo taken on iPhone 18 Pro models with Apple Reference Image, powered by the new sensor in the Main camera that can sign every pixel it sees.

Will this also work with third-party camera apps like ProCam?

https://www.procamapp.com/

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/procam-5/id6787737491?mt=8

Can't I just point my camera at an AI generated image? And it will get the stamp of authenticity?

On the opposite side, this read to me like there was so much image processing going on in the background and off device that they felt like they needed to prove that there was a real image backing the creation, and that it was not all AI. It really begs the question of what the extent is of image processing.

Yes, this is really a "Pro" feature, while C2PA exists, not many consumer products have it, iPhone will be the game changer for reporters.

The weakness of this is that a person can take a picture of a high resolution screen or print.

We really need Apple to open up true depth APIs to make forgery non trivial.

lol, called it month ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49138302#49142011

I wish next year for videos too.

We really need it for journalism. Otherwise we will not know what is real and what fabricated with ai.

Feels like the only ones who'd benefit from this are AI companies that are afraid of tainting their post 2023 datasets with their own slop.

On the other hand if this becomes mandated by law I can see it become treacherous for endusers.

So does that mean only the main sensor can do this ?

That's more of a software feature..

Canon's original high end digital models had this as a feature, that your images could be digitally signed in-camera based on raw sensor data. Primarily for law enforcement. Obviously a far broarder use case, now.

That smells like "show don't tell", but who knows.

Cynical take: A single photo to now consume up 50mb of cloud storage, adding to the demand for more data centers that supported the creation of this authenticity issue in the first place.

A mobile phone.. an internet communicator.. a music player.. don't you get it? well, steve, actually 18 years later it's a .. camera

*Not available in EU or China.

I wonder what the common thread is.

Finally. Android phones have been shipping with C2PA since last year, so it's great that the final holdout has capitulated, though with its own set of nonstandard tools.

https://c2paviewer.com/articles/samsung-galaxy-s25-c2pa

https://security.googleblog.com/2025/09/pixel-android-truste...

https://c2paviewer.com/supported-devices

How will this work against rehosted images on all the platforms people actually share photos from? It’s a good feature but many popular services apply metadata stripping and basic image adjustment before resharing. That seems like the place where people would actually want to verify authenticity.

> Or feature Thunderbolt rather than normie USB-C so you can record 4/8K ProRes to an SSD,

The old iPhone 17 Pro has USB 3.2 Gen 2, which is good for 10Gb/s.

You can already record 4K60 ProRes to an external SSD. This feature already existed for a year, so I assume you didn't actually need it?

> and power a multi monitor setup with your iPhone Pro. macOS would be sick.

I think you're looking for a MacBook Pro the size of an iPhone.

> I think a dual modem would be really cool, maybe with some features targeting users in poor cell coverage/ spotty service areas.

Can already do iMessage over satellite. Most “data” is download and I predict some satellite service that sends basic broadcasts (traffic, news, Text-to-speech podcasts) squeezed into a few mbps by pointing your phone at the sky (or a small cabled antenna for around the clock use). Would love to go carrier-less.

>Or feature Thunderbolt rather than normie USB-C so you can record 4/8K ProRes to an SSD,

My iphone 16 pro max can do 4K ProRes HDR or Log at 120 FPS when plugged into a SSD. If I had more builtin storage I could do it without the SSD. If you don't mind more dongling you can also have an external display along with the external SSD.

Apple Reference Image is the new "pro" feature.

Images that sync to mac photos app instantly via wifi rather than half day via icloud.

[dead]

> The only thing that need radical change is iOS.

Please, not again.

– Sincerely yours mobile developer

Besides a better camera what all this along with the past generations have so exciting ? I just fail to see a reason to upgrade. Maybe I am getting old?

Heat desperation?

I don’t think Siri is sentient yet.

I don’t understand why the Max version doesn’t have C2. Maybe supply constraints but I doubt it.

> The only thing that need radical change is iOS.

Personally iSO 26 is so unbelievably glitchy, it's only not embarrasing because you know others spent $$$ on the same thing so everyone pretends it's fine.

What do you do with your phone that requires you to know the memory details? Genuine question, I have absolutely no idea how much memory my iPad or phone have and don’t see why I would need to know

Based on supply chain leaks, it's pretty safe to assume 12 GB memory with up to 100GB/sec memory bandwidth at best.

The A19 Pro had 12 GB and was around 77GB/sec memory bandwidth for reference. If I was a betting man, I'd say the memory bandwidth on the A20 Pro is the same.

12GB of ram and double the memory the bandwidth over the previous model.

The things we need to know most, RAM and Memory Bandwidth, are unfortunately missing from the release. Their absence doesn't bode well.

Since 1984, Apple has targeted regular people, not spec nerds. You're not the market.

Changed my 14 PRO battery last week. See you @ iPhone 22

Still using my 12 Pro Max as well. Battery is still okay-ish on mine. Not good, but I don't have to actively worry about it. Will be looking forward to all the fancy new features when I replace it in 3-4 years

I still use a 13 Pro Max for travel. Incredible longevity. The only downside is it requires a battery pack to last a full day but those are slim and compact now. I intend to replace the battery soon since it still has 2-3 years left as a backup.

It will probably keep most of its value too, if hardware price inflation continues.

I still have my 11. The battery is garbage on it, but everything is still totally fine. Haven't upgraded to iOS 26 though...

13 Pro here. Just upgraded my battery. May go another year or two at this rate.

Always said that I didn't see a reason to upgrade once I had 5G UW

> the most advanced camera in an iPhone

I mean, I can't remember the last time they DIDN'T say that. Variable aperture is kinda cool I guess. 256Gigs of storage basically means everyone's going to have to upgrade their iCloud storage monthly spend just to back this thing up. I've stopped sending my camera roll to iCloud just to save on space.

Incremental changes year/year to a mature product line means if you skip a couple years you get a BIG upgrade

You can always buy the $2000 edition. Or give Apple the finger. I'm leaning toward the latter.

refurbished 13 mini for me

I don’t think you need to be taking “expert” photos to want some optical zoom.

I wish they’d put a zoom lens instead of a wide angle on the standard iPhone, but alas, you need a Pro for that.

It makes a lot more sense to purchase one if you consider their residual value when you sell it to upgrade later. A typical Android phone depreciates much more quickly than an iPhone. My three-year-old iPhone 15 Pro is still worth $500 or more on the open market--about half of what I spent. That's only $166/year.

The downside is that you need more money up front to purchase it.

TBH I don't think I've ever bought a new phone because there was something new and fancy that I could justify. Every phone I've bought has been because my previous phone stopped receiving software updates, or in the case of my Pixel 6a, had a hooped battery.

Then don't. Isn't the whole point of long support cycles that you can keep using your phone for 5 years +, if it serves you well? (typing this from an S22)

The marginal improvements add up over time. Most people upgrade every few years, amortized over a 3 year upgrade cycle it's not really that expensive.

Because they shared the Newsroom URL, instead of the Apple product page:

https://www.apple.com/iphone-18-pro/

I doubt any phone battery is lasting 5+ years. But I can say modern iPhones are pretty easy to swap the battery on. They designed it so the back plate gets removed to open the phone rather than the screen. No more risk of cracking the display.

I'm on the iPhone 13 pro max since launch and my phone comfortable gets through an entire day of usage. (Given my usage is pretty light). If the battery fubars in one of the next years I wouldn't be upset, 5+ years of battery life is enough.

But I also don't see it failing me any time soon on battery. I think local AI models in a future iPhone could be an actual reason to upgrade.

I have a 12 Pro Max purchased at release, battery is now at 83% capacity. Still lasts all day and then some, rarely think how much I've got left on a charge.

Meh I just replaced a battery in my 14 pro (and the charging port) for ~200 EUR. I didn't want to upgrade yet and I would not even be considering upgrading if the device had USB-C

Don't. Large iPhones are the deadweight of a ball and chain, and fits in no pockets. Next one will be the SE, and even if I buy an external battery, it's still lighter than the ingot Pro Max. Also you can buy one every 1.5 years.

I try and pick apps based on package size the rare time I look for some app. There are still apps out there made like they were 10 years ago (that probably haven't been updated in 10 years) where the package size is sub 10mb, sometimes sub 1mb. You get an app like that it is performant and will fly on any iphone really, and barely impact battery life in all likelihood.

Maybe you need a new phone. Or a faster internet connection?

I just tested a number of apps on my 15pm connected to WiFi and could not find anything that took longer than 5 seconds. That includes some small developers and bad developers.

Not quite sure where you are seeing this. Maybe games?

Agreed on iPhone versions not feeling significant. I personally consider it a good thing. I'll keep my phone for as long as possible and not feel the need to upgrade.

I personally don't care if Siri is the worst LLM of the big players, as long as it can answer my basic questions and search my texts, I'm happy. I don't need "frontier intelligence" for that kind of stuff.

As for dictation, they say the new dictation is much better, requiring an iPhone 17. Unfortunately, I won't get to find out if that's true for another five or so years, but I'm hopeful for a better dictation on device, because you're right.

That's kind of like saying the 2026 Corolla isn't really much different than the 2025. People don't expect to upgrade annually. I'm using an iPhone 15, and upgraded to that from a 6S+. The 15 was a night and day difference. Most people are financing their device with their service plan which is 2-3 contract.

I upgraded from a 13 to a 17 pro. Barely notice a different, my old phone was just dying

This is the problem for Apple. Expect shorter lifetime for security updates in the next few years. It’s why they’re pushing the “lease to own”, because people aren’t upgrading every year, or two, or even three any more.

Indeed been using the new Siri since June and it fails a ton in comparison to chatGPT voice!

Using chatGPT voice i can see Open AI's push for pushing us to a new Internet voice paradigm 1st with screens/visuals secondary & complimentary to possibly none at all. It would be much safer especially when driving to get super intelligent human like directions where voice says drive to the mcdonalds on dorset you go to all the time and across the street is the new 7 Brew coffee shop.

— "Start my chronometer"

— "There is no contact named 'Chronometer'"

Maybe if we mock the iPhone enough, they'll stop autocorrecting words with other words that are on the opposite side of the keyboard. Or mistype letters with the letters just next to them.

iPhone is laughing stock. A neverending comedy of "There is no track named 'Call Mom' in your Apple Music library."

Have you tried using a 3rd party photo app (like Halide)?

The 16 was a significant downgrade in quality due to over-processing. The hardware is actually improving, you just unfortunately need to use a third-party app to get access to the raw photos.

I haven’t upgraded since 2020 and I still don’t have a good reason to. My iPhone 12 still runs great. I use a real camera for photography. Other than the cameras, what has meaningfully improved over the last 6 years?

[flagged]

It's their in-house cellular modem for 2G/3G/4G/5G.

No details on satellite comms, but the predecessor C1X also handles satellite communication and competitor Qualcomm also does satellite comms on the same silicon, so I'd say yes.

It works with normies.

My wife just preordered an 18 pro. She’s the family photographer and is still on a 128gb iPhone 12, so it’s time for an upgrade and she fell in love with the cherry color.

She bought the 12 instead of the more appropriate 12 pro years ago because she loved the purple that she couldn’t get with a 12 pro.

Edit:typo

...and a brave new price

Yes, that felt very bizarre and glossed over. The specific details the speaker gave made me feel like it was a weird product placement, but like, _why_? Why would this multi-trillion-dollar behemoth needs to strike a brand deal with Quest?

While it is a cool technical advance to see, its use case is probably niche. One of the biggest things people say about photography is lighting. In general, if you can get more photons onto your imaging plane, you will have a better picture. This is why phone cameras, despite advertising 100s of MPs, still fall short. For the same field of view and capture conditions, fewer photons are collected because phone sensor sizes are much smaller. This is a physical limitation that cannot be overcome.

Now given that they already have a lower photon budget, you now want to add aperture control, which when stopped down physically reduces the amount of light from the scene that reaches the sensor. Thus you need to compensate for these lost photons somehow, so gain will probably have to increase quite a bit, but then you get noisier, grainier photos. This then leads to the suspicion that you will need some sort of AI denoising or computational processing to recover some of that lost image quality. Though of course you can comp in other way such as exposure time (they can make big wins here with their stabilization) and tons of lighting.

Also a phone already starts with very deep depth of field because again smaller sensor size thus smaller focal length etc. Most images at their lower f stop is already in focus. So the ability to reduce aperture or simulate shallow DOF is trying to give users more of the creative control that larger sensor cameras naturally have (need to manipulate because of their larger sensor size) and doesn't make much sense to me.

>The miniaturization of this mechanical piece is really quite wild.

It's nothing new, Samsung has done thing on the S9/S10, and recently Sony is also doing this, they even come with movable zoom lens

Hyperbole if I have ever read it. Lots of other products released I don’t think the highlight was the iPhone 18.

Try $12,000 for that.

This is the kind of nonsense I come here for… can I follow you? :D

I would assume it's because most people just tether to their phone with a USB cable or wireless with two mouse clicks.

iOS video playback is pretty highly optimised and hardware-assisted, though, right?

Not sure you can really extrapolate non-video battery life from video battery life. I have an ageing iPad and I can get a couple of hours of video when the battery is at 30%, but it would be gone in 45 minutes if I was browsing.

Depends on which video codec. If it’s the most efficient one that has dedicated silicone embedded in the chip, it’s going to work great.

Web browsing is typically significantly harder on power. Plus these benchmarks usually mean in a perfectly dark room with the backlight at close to zero.

How is Face ID un-accessible for those with visual impairment? I hadn't heard that before.

You’re in luck, the Duo has Touch ID and a big screen.

we’ll be waiting a while. The last Mini was iPhone 8 sized, when I considered anything larger than the 5 to be too much.

The Mini thus, undersold, because if you were fine with the 8 then iPhones of that size were still available (2nd Gen SE). Nobody bought: So Apple thinks theres no market.

Despite the Lightning port, I prefer my 13 Mini to upgrading.

Having used a Z Fold 8, it's sort of a Mini. I'd love to see a non-folding phone in the same passport form factor, I think they'd sell a ton.

I really liked my iPhone 12 mini. But Apple also makes a lot of money from app sales, so I wonder if there’s a connection between screen size and app purchases. Maybe users with larger screens spend more time in apps and are therefore more likely to buy apps or make in-app purchases. The more screen real estate people have, the more they might engage with apps, which could translate into higher spending.

The new iPhone Duo in single screen mode is the same size (5.4") as the iPhone 13 mini but with a different aspect ratio

https://photos.reportinglive.com/p/2026-09-09/f-bf86c6f5adb3...

I wish they'd alternate each year or something between iPhone / iPhone mini if they're struggling for sales.

The body shapes and cases seem to change each year anyway now, so it's not like people get to re-use cases that much anyway...

Me too. Everyone who sees my phone loves it, and I always share a nod with my fellow mini owners. I really don’t want a huge phone and it is still more than fast enough (a 12 at that!) iPhones got Good Enough at least 6 years ago. Same with macbooks.

I swear only Apple brings out comments where people will insinuate a whole nefarious conspiracy over phones being sold in different colors.

99% of people put their iPhone in a case that covers up the color. This is not something anybody actually thinks.

Sometimes I tell my teenage daughter “stop inventing things to be mad about”. Good advice for HN commenters, too.

Mine is in a blue case. My last case was black. Only when my cases wear out do I remember that my phone is actually white.

Golden HN rule: the more complaints, the more successful the product will turn out because normal people like it. It’s like the inverse Cramer.

- Top 4/6 links on HN are currently Apple news.

Yeah Apple TOTALLY doesn't astroturf HN.

Hi from page 1

> that image shared online is original and unedited?

The image data the sensor physically receives passes through a ton of processing steps before the image lands in your phone. If there is some watermarking/signature doing on, on the image, it'd be that the device at that moment capture that data, not that it's not AI, or not edited, or "truthful" or whatever. That's still an unsolved problem to figure out.

It is a very old idea. But it matters a lot in iPhone’s scale. Many people will have it without buying a separate device.

From what I understand, the feature renders a signed reference image from raw sensor-data "alongside the final image".

Still no solution if the image posted online is not that reference image or that reference image is actually a photo of an AI picture.

Isn’t that done by EXIF like decades ago? Not on phones but DSLR. I would think it’s an easy software thing to add (and probably to remove)

The underlying tech is already compromised on the Android side.

https://lobste.rs/s/4netv1/c2pa_cameras_do_not_survive_conta...

In some thread not yet voted to the front page. iPhone Duo

Edit: Nevermind, it has made the front page now

Apple iPhone Duo is out

I have been out of the phone tech loop for a while...

When did Qualcomm start eclipsing apple?