xvilka2 hours ago
Would be nice if they donate to LibreOffice then, to improve the support of various MS Office features in files, as well as comparison/diffing features. Win-win to everyone.
pocksuppetan hour ago
They don't have to. If LibreOffice wanted them to have to, they should have used a different license.
dumberquestionsan hour ago
Good thing that "would be nice" doesn't entail that they have to.
mplewis29 minutes ago
you people are always mixing up the legal thing to do with the right thing to do
rdbl2725 minutes ago
Surely "the right thing to do" includes some element of the authors' explicitly stated preferences about how they wish to be treated.
In this case, they chose -- explicitly -- to NOT require any payment or contribution from anyone.
Your feelings about what constitutes "the right thing to do" are apparently different from those of the authors. You believe you know better than they themselves do how they should be treated.
mastazi11 minutes ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
Dylan1680715 minutes ago
> Surely "the right thing to do" includes some element of the authors' explicitly stated preferences about how they wish to be treated.
It does! And they wish to get donations. There's a button right at the top on the site making that clear.
> In this case, they chose -- explicitly -- to NOT require any payment or contribution from anyone.
Yes, so what? It is true that they wished to not require payment. That is one of their wishes, but they have more than one wish. And if they required payment, that wouldn't be a donation anyway.
satvikpendem15 minutes ago
Who decides what the right thing to do is? Everyone has different opinions.
fangspire27 minutes ago
But laws are just encodes morality.
ultrarunnera minute ago
Funny how morality so often benefits incumbents and the powerful.
Dylan1680711 minutes ago
Many of them are, but they're focused on big picture issues and preventing harm. Most of morality has no legal force.
esperent8 hours ago
I actually bundle LibreOffice with my app too and the reason is reading files, especially old xls files. Since I'm bundling it I'm now using it for everything docs related but the specific reason is those old files. I couldn't find anything else that I could just drop it and feel confident it'll just read anything I give it.
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skinfaxi3 hours ago
[flagged]
stackghost42 minutes ago
>How much money have you contributed back to this seemingly indispensable project?
Perhaps it's time for you to become familiar with the terms of the Mozilla Public License, under which Libre Office is released. There is no requirement for monetary compensation.
dnautics29 minutes ago
No requirement doesn't mean "don't be a mensch"
rdbl2724 minutes ago
You believe you know better than the authors themselves about how they ought to be treated?
They chose -- explicitly, voluntarily, knowingly -- to give the thing away for free. That's their right for their own creation. Your preferences don't supersede theirs.
sampullman14 minutes ago
You've emphasized this point more than once, but I don't think it's a good counterargument to the GP. It is equally valid to say that they have explicitly (voluntarily, knowlingly) chosen to accept donations for their work.
By profiting off their work and not supporting them you are making your own choice. It says nothing about the authors' preference.
Bridged7756an hour ago
Contributed? Whats this? Communism?
lgl8 hours ago
Does that really mean that it's bundling those apps from the start or did it just download and install them at some point to do some local work on some prompt or job you ask it to?
I don't see it making much sense to bundle it. I'm sure a LOT of LLM prompts are related with docs, excels, powerpoints etc, etc but don't really see it worth it for it to be bundled on the codex app from the get go, because otherwise, why not also install dozens of other apps?
simonw8 hours ago
I'm not sure. Someone who hasn't installed the ChatGPT (or Codex) apps yet could confirm this by installing the apps, seeing if that ~/.cache directory exists, then try running a prompt that needs Python or Node.js or LibreOffice and see if it downloads them when needed.
zatkin8 hours ago
I've never installed the ChatGPT app on my Mac until today. I ran the app, signed in, and I see the same.
% ls ~/.cache/codex-runtimes/codex-primary-runtime/dependencies/native/libreoffice-headless
libreoffice manifest.json
embedding-shape8 hours ago
On a Windows installation I see this:
PS C:\Users\user> ls C:\Users\user\.cache\codex-runtimes\codex-primary-runtime\dependencies\native\
Mode LastWriteTime Length Name
---- ------------- ------ ----
d----- 8/27/2026 10:09 AM git
d----- 6/16/2026 9:18 PM jxrlib
d----- 8/26/2026 7:37 PM libheif
d----- 6/17/2026 5:32 AM poppler
d----- 8/27/2026 10:09 AM powershell
dofm5 hours ago
Is this perhaps because the aim is to read Office documents and there are (maybe, I don't know for sure) default components within Windows that can do that?
melagonster3 hours ago
Codex always try Libreoffice first on my computer.
zamadatix7 hours ago
Notably: this did not exist after I installed the app, it existed after I ran the app and there was the long startup screen. Presumably, and I'm not sure I'm interested enough to redo it all and find out, that long startup screen involves the default skills plugins setting up their environment and one of those pulls it as a general app requirement.
I also saw this present after first run on macOS but not Windows.
atp_studio_coll5 hours ago
[flagged]
ValentineC7 hours ago
I have had the Codex/ChatGPT app installed for a few months, and can confirm that there's a 422.9 MB file named LibreOfficeDev.app in the above path.
More notably, I don't use Computer Use or any of the fancy features, just Codex for agentic coding.
RomanHauksson8 hours ago
> why not also install dozens of other apps?
because other apps are less likely to be useful, and there's diminishing returns
isityettime7 hours ago
The new app is an unbelievable mess. Settings are senselessly organized, too. The whole thing has this aesthetic slickness and then underneath it's like the people who make it have never even used it.
It's not surprising that it's pulled in absolutely massive dependencies, although I'm not sure it's the wrong call on some operating systems. LibreOffice is pretty tried and true.
yeutterg7 hours ago
Personally, I like the 3-pane organization (sidebar, chat, browser). I turned ChatGPT into my bookkeeper and social post writing/kanban space, and it works well for these script+browser workflows on desktop.
However, all of this is confusing:
- the ChatGPT/Codex split on desktop
- Chat/Work split on mobile
- how you remotely access each chat from your phone (some of my most valuable chats are buried in Remote)
- which chats propagate from device to device, and which remain on that device
nobody_r_knows5 hours ago
[dead]
RestartKernel4 hours ago
They removed the global shortcut to show a portable chat overlay. That one entrypoint must've been the source of at least 80% of my chats, yet apparently it was considered too vestigial to keep.
written-beyond5 hours ago
HOW DOES IT WORK FOR YOU PEOPLE?!
Istg on windows, I can't get codex app, new chatgpt or chatgpt classic to work without hanging on even a moderately sized chat. I tried all of the different tricks people recommended but that shit just crawls. It was stable at some point, classic that is, but then it started being a laggy mess.
I've uninstalled new chatgpt/codex app. I can't access phone chats on it, I can't use the desktop allocated chat messages on it. I have to use up codex limits. I am so surprised that OpenAI ships that hot garbage on windows.
johaugum5 hours ago
Mac Neo can be had for $600 now, and it runs Codex incredibly well!
But even on the Windows machine, if you Tailscale into a free tier VM for the workloads, you'd probably have a much better time.
Just leave Codex itself on your machine, if you set up computer use it will happily set up all of this for you while you have lunch.
jbird996 hours ago
Almost like it's... vibe coded.
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senectus14 hours ago
yeah, that seems obvious by now.
enraged_camel2 hours ago
The thing that blows my mind about it is that they straight up copied Claude Code and tried to frame it as some sort of incredible accomplishment. There are no new ideas, no insightful UI/UX paradigms, no killer features. They say money can't buy taste. The ChatGPT/Codex app is proof that it cannot buy creativity either.
Razengan5 hours ago
And when you go to their forums it says "This forum is not for discussing the ChatGPT App..."
..like excuse me? Where the fuck else would we post feedback about it?
pseudosavant8 hours ago
Is that what it is using to render and manipulate MS Office documents? That'd explain the poor rendering of some of my files. Bundling all of LibreOffice seems like a pretty huge dependency.
telotortium7 hours ago
I have a skill that instructs ChatGPT/Codex to verify the rendering using the Mac versions of Microsoft Office. Even without registering, you still can open files read-only, which is enough. Apparently Office refuses to open some Open Office XML documents that LibreOffice is fine with, so that's another reason to use this. After a few times, Codex ended up storing some memories to stop producing broken files in the first place.
I generated the skill originally for ChatGPT 5.5, so some of these may not strictly be necessary anymore with later models. But posting here in case others find it useful: https://gist.github.com/telotortium/844386f762c4b3bab49999ba...
bs72806 hours ago
What's ironic about this is, afaik there's no programmatic way to get a screenshot of a PowerPoint on windows other than opening up PowerPoint and screenshotting it. I only discovered this when I first tried out Anthropics official PowerPoint skill when it came out this winter.
If anything happens from this, I hope it forces Microsoft to address some of its long standing hostile to power users issues so they can stay relevant in the world of AI tooling.
pseudosavant5 hours ago
This can absolutely be done programmatically. I just added the ability to do that using PowerPoint for Windows yesterday in my uv/python tool `markdown-pptx`. Codex added the functionality in less than 5 minutes.
JLO648 hours ago
For a docker image of mine I was bundling the full version of LibreOffice as well but I managed to get some space savings by bundling just the no-gui version.
zamadatix7 hours ago
Seems to match the screenshot in the blogpost but libreoffice-headless still shows as 429.7 MB.
nomel8 hours ago
> Bundling all of LibreOffice seems like a pretty huge dependency
What's the alternative library you see?
simongg8 hours ago
Apache POI
nomel6 hours ago
I don't think that's anywhere near equivalent. That's for reading and writing Microsoft Office docs. It has no office functionality. LibreOffice has a full API, for example to run calculations on spreadsheets [1].
The goal of bringing in dependencies is so you don't have to duplicate the functionality, in this case, crafted over decades of effort.
[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/SDKGuide/C...
what_hn8 hours ago
[dead]
MikeTheGreat8 hours ago
pandoc
verdverm8 hours ago
Why not computer use or using the tools the user prefers instead? The primary office suites have APIs/CLIs now
johnsmith18404 hours ago
If you've ever actually gone down this route you will try exactly this realize how much of a cluster f these products are and just use libre.
I did the exact same thing in my AI system. Spent an ENOURMOUS amount of time trying everything I could and in the end libre was the only thing even somewhat functional.
Easily 2 months of my life lost to these god forsaken systems. APIs and CLIs sound reasonable until you actually attempt anything in this space.
Computer use is exactly the same thing. Go try this: go to a google doc and dev tools check out the dom and now do the same for a word doc. Eye gouging pain of trying to get anything to work.
tyre8 hours ago
Computer use is slow and can take control of the application focus. I’ll be doing things while Claude runs in the background. Suddenly it decides to open the app and try to do something + screenshot it.
ChickeNES7 hours ago
I don't know how many times I've had to yell at codex or claude to use/implement headless versions of whatever it's doing at the time, interrupts me trying to multitask and play Battlefield or Factorio while they work :P
verdverm5 hours ago
don't try Dyson sphere project (/s, its acrually really great), but maybe try x4 foundations, I'm contemplating how I might have my agent help manage my empire
verdverm8 hours ago
That's where the CLIs come in for me, I'm not going to waste tokens on screenshots and input device manipulation
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/microsoft365dev/getting-start...
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edemdogbe8 hours ago
[flagged]
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tiahura8 hours ago
Yes. If you have word you can instruct to use word via com or AppleScript.
OutOfHere8 hours ago
Just the headless version looks to be bundled. The title as posted might be incorrect.
petilon7 hours ago
There is a serious threat to Microsoft here, if everyone starts using AI for generating and updating Office docs. At some point Office will become just a viewer.
trueno7 hours ago
im stoked for that outcome, standard document tooling should not live behind subscription models anymore. i dont care that microsoft spent zillions bankrolling education systems and companies to fall into this cultural lock in over the decades
whether they like it or not spreadsheets word docs etc are just ubiquitous parts of existing in society at this point you're gonna need to reach for these tools eventually just to apply for jobs or do homework
watwut6 hours ago
You assume tokens will be free after these get their monopoly positions? Actual libre office is actual open source running on weak hardware. Truly free.
And I suspect we will look back at MS with nostalgia once Altman and Musk get their ai imperiums.
fg1375 hours ago
I have not created or read any Word document for a very long time. I only create PowerPoint presentations a few times a year for work, which could be easily replaced with PowerPoint online or Google Slides or even just some markdown files.
But I have a license for the entire office 365 including Copilot premium.
Guess why?
articulatepang4 hours ago
For Excel?
jags-v3 hours ago
Haven't used MicrosoftOffice in the past 7 years.
dist-epoch7 hours ago
Don't worry, they are ahead of this.
Satya said some time ago that they expect soon to have more agents using Microsoft software than humans, and are working on transitioning their focus from serving humans to serving agents.
https://www.news18.com/business/satya-nadella-announces-micr...
petilon6 hours ago
So they will switch to per-agent pricing instead of per-user. Fine, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft Office will become a just bunch of viewers as far as human usage is concerned. As far as generating Office documents, you can do that without using any Microsoft code.
yakz6 hours ago
This is one that's already true and "everyone" hasn't figured it out yet. But you don't really even need Office as a viewer, PDF is fine (for printable/portable fixed-layout) or just HTML. "Office" is a product that doesn't need to exist anymore, at least for the core apps. For day-to-day office work, you probably shouldn't be using those legacy apps, you should be reviewing portable document formats and asking an agent to make the revisions that you want.
dist-epoch6 hours ago
> For Microsoft, this shift means products like M365 will act as the foundational layer where AI agents operate. Users will still need places to store documents, manage projects, search files, and track workflows
They bet on the online office suite (M365).
cromka6 hours ago
... and without the license, crucially!
kelvinjps106 hours ago
But why would openai and antrhopic pay them if they already libreoffice for free and why would users pay if they already have an Ai subscription
devy4 hours ago
Now someone please use ChatGPT/Codex or Claude Code to rewrite the entire LibreOffice source into a single Rust binary already! Just like Jarred Sumner did for Bun [1] or Carmine Paolino did for Fastpotify [2] - granted there are some rough edges for sure, but the slim diet trimmed down and performance gains were wrothy.
[1] https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust [2] https://fastpotify.rocks/
whatan hour ago
> rewrite the entire LibreOffice source into a single Rust binary already!
Why?
vb-84488 hours ago
Curiously, I didn't find any reference in the Open source licences section of the codex app.
Is this a MPL 2.0 violation?
thesdev8 hours ago
Copyright violation is the last thing one could accuse ChatGPT of.
vb-84487 hours ago
Well, this one is particularly obvious, other one are more fuzzy.
throwaway6137463 hours ago
[dead]
zamadatix7 hours ago
Despite the title, I'm not sure it's actually bundled. Some of the skills plugins will download it on the first run. So it depends where they are grabbing it from rather than the presence of the binary on the system, but I haven't checked that deep into where they actually grab it.
TZubiri7 hours ago
The license itself may be present in the cache folder.
Alternatively, ChatGPT might happily disclose authorship and licensing if asked.
I'm not convinced of the argument that the fact that it is not bundled at download or even at install-time, would free them of the GPL responsibilities. And at this point.
I'm also not sure HOW the devs bundled libreoffice, whether they just mentioned in a prompt (use libreoffice), or whether they hardcoded a command (like apt install libreoffice), more likely the former, considering the recursive vibecoding nature of this software.
Whole lotta words to say that I don't know whether this is a GPL violation, but interested in the answer. If it is a violation, the likely fix will probably be yet another prompt that says something like "comply with licensing", which probably already exists, so a more specific "provide attribution (in a way that doesn't bother the user)"
prmoustachean hour ago
> Whole lotta words to say that I don't know whether this is a GPL violation,
I don't need a lot of words to say it can't be a GPL violation since Libreoffice is distributed under the MPL v2.0 license.
zamadatix5 hours ago
I finally did find the license in
~/.cache/codex-runtimes/codex-primary-runtime/dependencies/native/libreoffice-headless/libreoffice/LibreOfficeDev.app/Contents/Resources/LICENSEars5 hours ago
I think that depends on if they distribute it with the install package, or if they download it once installed.
monneyboi6 hours ago
Imagine the enormous complexity of office file formats if your business is literally building coding models/agents and still you choose to bundle LibreOffice.
lennart-rth7 hours ago
I suspect that it’s used in headless clip mode to reliably convert file formats back and forth.
paaloeye7 hours ago
First Claude installed 10GB VM [0] without asking, but OpenAI ships LibreOffice. What's next? Somebody ship their monorepo verbatim?
Honestly, not sure it's worth having those app on your localhost at all. I ended up uninstalling all frontier labs bloated apps and start using Google AI Mode + Antigravity CLI / Claude Code sometimes.
mirzap7 hours ago
I wonder why they didn't try to discover if the user already has those binaries and use them before downloading.
LtWorf6 hours ago
Because they vibe coded it.
Lucasoato6 hours ago
Also in the newest app I think the transcription feature is unusable. Ok, I can have a shortcut to start and stop recording. Wow, cool! Ok, but where did the transcription go? In my clipboard? To my cursor? Hey? :(
jrflo8 hours ago
I've noticed that when I have codex read/modify word files the live reasoning snippets often allude to LibreOffice, so that makes sense. I think it was a quick and dirty way for them to interface with docx and xlsx files?
alex-moon8 hours ago
Someone may need to explain to me what is wrong with this sorry. Is it because it bloats the app with functionality that some users will never use? I feel like that is fairly usual for productivity/business apps generally.
simonw8 hours ago
I don't see anything wrong with it, I just think it's interesting.
alex-moon8 hours ago
Oh right, yeah I agree. It's the kind of thing I can imagine the harness downloading in the background anyway (or instructing the user to do) at some point so I can see the sense in just skipping that bit. Kind of comforting they just do it the same way the rest of us do - if it ain't broke and so on.
nialse8 hours ago
It does, however, introduce a potentially enormous attack surface into ChatGPT, along with creative opportunities for less security conscious individuals and LLMs.
winstonp8 hours ago
I think it's overbloating my computer
OutOfHere8 hours ago
Actually, people do use and require the functionality, which is the point. The title as posted might be incorrect.
alex-moon8 hours ago
Yes, that's what I mean - maybe that didn't come across cos I said "bloats". I work for a business that builds web apps for corporates - LibreOffice is bundled in most of the repos of ours that I've seen, a bit like Imagick is in the broader sector.
gfalcao6 hours ago
Are they at least respecting the licenses (.i.e.: providing a verbatim copy of each license?)
zitterbewegung7 hours ago
It might be for their new Work product which can produce docx, pdf and pox files.
topaztee6 hours ago
spinning up an entire copy of libreoffice sounds super heavy?, if someone here is actually using chatgpt to edit docx documents then they can feel free to use us. vespper.com
woadwarrior016 hours ago
You want something heavier? They were trashing people's SSDs a few months ago. IDK if it's been resolved, yet.
joquarky4 hours ago
DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
simonw8 hours ago
(This is more of a tweet than a blog post, it really wasn't written with Hacker News in mind.)
benatkin6 hours ago
Indeed, but that likely wouldn't have stopped someone from submitting it with a misleading title. HN is known to get a lot of misleading titles submitted and to have to change them. The <title> tag is better, it doesn't say "a full copy". In the screenshot it shows "headless" in the filename. I would simply add the tiny detail of headless to the <title> and use this title for HN: Codex Bundles Headless LibreOffice
MattDamonSpace8 hours ago
frankly how dare you
mrob8 hours ago
How is simonw to blame for somebody else submitting it to HN?
embedding-shape8 hours ago
True, I feel like the entire HN community is to blame for this, particularly pg and dang.
TZubiri7 hours ago
Thanks Obama
justsomehnguy7 hours ago
I have a feeling you should learn about Poe's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
switchbak7 hours ago
Anyone quoting Poe's Law is clearly just a Nazi.
...
For those that can't see the sarcasm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
dvduval8 hours ago
My agent did it? I didn’t do it.
trentor8 hours ago
I don't see the problem?
iAMkenough8 hours ago
Who said it was a problem? This looks like an observation to me, not an accusation.
robomartin4 hours ago
Last time I used the Windows version it pegged all my cores at 100% usage for some reason. The machine became unusable. Instead I used Codex with JetBrains Rider (doing a C# project) and it worked flawlessly.
FailMore6 hours ago
(I made a similar comment in a different post by Simon Willison yesterday about GPT Work)
I am unsure the direction that AI assisted document creation work will go in. I am opinionated and building something in the space. In this reply I discuss my view + what I have been building.
My opinion is: We now have AI, this new amazing flexible tool. We can throw it at any problem. But in terms of document creation we have a choice between old fashioned siloed document formats (.pptx, .pdf, .xlsx, .docx, etc.) and a freshly rendered - slightly randomly styled - html site with some basic javascript within it. I think these combinations are odd and do not maximise the powers of AI.
I've been building something called SmallDocs [0][1] which is a new take on work documents. It's all Markdown, but it always renders (100% privately) on the SmallDocs site. This means the SmallDocs renderer can convert recognised Markdown combinations into powerful traditional document formats [2]. For example, we convert a ```cells block into an in-line spreadsheet you can export to Excel.
This gives an agent the ability to express itself with a great deal of depth and flexibility. For example, your agent can produce a single data analysis "SmallDoc" with text, charts, spreadsheets, etc. [3] I find that combining formats quickens the speed I can understand a topic.
SmallDocs also have standardised and pretty boring styling. This means you spend less time understanding the layout of a flashy HTML page and more time on the content.
I also believe a pre-determined rendering engine has a lot of advantages over a freslhy built HTML artifact. It allows you to build in lot's of useful defaults that the agent doesn't have to code from scratch. These can be small things, for example, every time your agent renders a Markdown table in SmallDocs you can instantly copy it as a CSV or a PNG. And these can be bigger things, such as a rich slides DSL with solid styling defaults, which saves your agents a lot of tokens and results in consistently attractive HTML slides [4]. (Slides can also be automatically exported to .pdf and .pptx.)
I've been at it for a few months, and am still working on the project. I am looking for feedback and open source collaborators. Thanks for reading!
[1] https://github.com/espressoplease/smalldocs
[2] https://smalldocs.org/blogs/what-is-a-smalldoc
[3] https://smalldocs.org/s/46fWiAyF77T9c7tqYwAQqp#k=j78ZEOOrgo8...
[4] https://smalldocs.org/s/QrmeWMsULGS871nXQYOacB#k=ubOHH9QtTWp...
(And something totally different, your agent can also use SmallDocs to walk you through code files: https://smalldocs.org/s/JsI_-tWSH0UpSd_YXxVLPm#k=G5jLCYA4JUX...)
wilg6 hours ago
Presumably this is for ChatGPT Work? https://simonwillison.net/2026/Aug/30/understanding-chatgpt-...
quotemstr8 hours ago
There's no security benefit to doing this versus demand-downloading hashed-locked components on need.
TZubiri7 hours ago
Ok, it's probably not a security decision. It's a common pattern with both storage and memory management to push most reservations to initialization, in order to cluster resource insufficiency errors to a specific install-time when the user or admin can do something about it. An excessive just-in-time approach in both storage and memory would cause OOM and Disk exhaustion to occur at many different times.
dvrp8 hours ago
And wait till you find out about @oai/walnut
bcanzanella8 hours ago
do tell!
djriley8 hours ago
Walnut is the .NET and OpenXML backend. I think the point parent was trying to make it that it shouldn't be surprising Codex bundles runtimes for damn near everything.
m3kw98 hours ago
probably uses it extensively to convert between LLM working on a doc and exporting it out to excel, word etc
luciana1u2 hours ago
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chemael3 hours ago
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basil_io4 hours ago
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throwaway6137463 hours ago
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soupspaces6 hours ago
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cpursley8 hours ago
I still don’t understand why with all their cash these companies dont redo their apps in Rust or native. They are all so heavy and dog slow. There are already some very fast cross platform (wasm too!) libraries that can do what poppler does as well as parse and produce various office file formats. Because 2gb is crazy town, these things could be around 100mb, just throw some tokens at the problem.
sudo_cowsay8 hours ago
Not that easy. Also, they have "priorities." Although their priorities are different than the users'.
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cpursley8 hours ago
Just throw some tokens at the problem. I’ve vibed up a Rust Crux hybrid app that runs well on macOS, iPad and wasm and does some pretty complex xml manipulation and other document work. Absolutely smokes electron and you get native UI.
doc_ick8 hours ago
On top of everyone else’s great points, if you make your own “fork” of something, then you have to consistently maintain it. Which can be done with tokens, but an extra cost with something that’s not as user tested.
cpursley7 hours ago
I’m not talking about forking, but using standard libraries and native frameworks instead pretending electron is a desktop app.
doc_ick6 hours ago
Ah good point, I thought this was coming across from the "recreate" your own approach. I would fully agree with you on using native frameworks, though the eletron desktop is a great "entry" onto desktops ensuring companies only have to update 1 source, as opposed to natives everywhere.
verdverm8 hours ago
one does not just "throw tokens" at a problem, Ai is not that capable, and we are talking about MS Office file format, likely a NP hard problem
vb-84488 hours ago
But in case they succeed the return on image will be astonishing.
doc_ick8 hours ago
Can you expand upon this?
vb-84485 hours ago
A full implementation/rewrite of something like word, which is pretty complex and the quantity of edge cases is insane, in a relatively short amount of time, months, is very hard.
If they succeed with AI it will be huge: it's basically not possible to do it today with humans, no matter how many people you put on the job.
doc_ickan hour ago
I would agree a full rewrite of word which is very complex and take quite a bit of time.
It would be impressive of AI to make a 80% rewrite, though I fully doubt it would cover the 100% rewrite (disregarding long term support as well).
Why do you think it’s impossible for humans to rewrite word, especially even humans made it in the first place?
sigbottle8 hours ago
I mean, aside from all the NP Hard sub problems (I might not be reading your satire though), the real hard problem is that a "product" is not just software, but an ecosystem and a promise of maintenance of the abstract user experience & quality of it.
cpursley7 hours ago
AI is especially good at ports like this where there’s a known and well tested surface area.
johnsmith18404 hours ago
*that only microsoft has access to.
These guys puposely obscure controls and understanding of these products 100% to prevent you doing a port.
Just go open a microsoft word doc in the browser and look at the dom.
Despair! Horror!
doc_ickan hour ago
Especially when there are three different versions, and each has a different team, and they all can work together at the same time. Crazy amount of tech supporting it that breaks a humans context let alone a models context.
verdverm5 hours ago
"ports like this" skips the part about Microsoft/enterprise software having a known and well tested surface area, the few examples we've seen are exceptional cases I suspect
johnsmith18404 hours ago
You should go actually try to make any basic automation work around these systems.
They purposely obscured, google doc is another example they completly hide the dom!
I spent months fighting word processing systems and ended up shipping libre. There's almost zero alternatives without that becoming your entire company.
nomel8 hours ago
What % of time, for a an average session, do you think is app overhead vs waiting for tokens? And there's your answer for why it's not a priority.
andai8 hours ago
Jon Blow's response to this take was, "yes, which is why you have to work even harder to hide latency", instead of adding more on top.
nikanj8 hours ago
From OpenAIs perspective, resources on your computer are free and wasting them is inconsequential
tmp104232884427 hours ago
Kind of. Eventually it gets too slow even for the OpenAI engineers using it, and then they need to fix it.
kingstnap6 hours ago
[dead]
quotemstr8 hours ago
What makes you think Rust is automatically better?
(Also, "Rust or native" is a strange dichotomy. What's not native about Rust?)
kennywinker8 hours ago
I think “or native” is a gesture at swift/objc for mac and C# or whatever people write windows apps in.
cpursley7 hours ago
Rust or native is objectively more performant and have smaller binaries than these web apps in Halloween costumes…