debazel3 days ago
Why is it replacing true/false with T/F? true/false is already 1 token in all tokenizer I've seen. Even worse is replacing null with ∅. ∅ is a special unicode symbol that takes up 2 tokens compared to the 1 token for null...
cedws3 days ago
Brand new GitHub account, brand new HN account. I stay far away from projects like this these days, they can easily be malicious. GitHub needs some kind of indicator for projects authored by tenured developers with a real identity.
plufz3 days ago
And they need some kind of downvote. Projects needs to be able to lose a star.
mcptokensaverop2 days ago
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fallingbananna3 days ago
What's even weirder is that the substitution is explained in "How TOON works" section. Yet TOON never describes such behavior anywhere in its spec.
vunderba2 days ago
Agreed. This is what happens when you confuse token counts with byte counts.
A trivial test through tiktoken [1] (though technically you really have to match the tokenizer to the specific LLM) would have shown them that ∅ was a poor choice.
Even from the perspective of learned training data, you can probably just intuit that from a frequency standpoint alone the empty-set symbol ∅ can’t possibly have appeared that often outside of things like set theory and logic.
mcptokensaverop2 days ago
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wehnsdaefflae3 days ago
Maybe they want to be tokenizer agnostic? Then they would need to go by character count, right? Despite these inconsistencies, has anyone actually verified their promise? 350 vs. 10.000 tokens would still be very valuable even if they mess up some edge cases
wannabe443 days ago
Oh it is not returning full tool schema. You can't cut down that much by serialisation alone.
AmazingTurtle3 days ago
↲ is also two tokens instead of a simple \n lmao
hnlmorg3 days ago
How is an LF two tokens? Or were you referring to the Unicode symbol?
I took their example to mean an actual LF ASCII character but now Ive read your comment, maybe I was being too charitable?
wongarsu3 days ago
They literally replace \n with the unicode symbol
https://github.com/activeing123/mcptoon/blob/main/src/mcptoo...
hnlmorg3 days ago
Wow. Just “wow”.
mcptokensaveropa day ago
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mcptokensaverop2 days ago
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Zinu3 days ago
I don’t think the Show Me section makes sense, the TOON variant clearly doesn’t have the same information. And the examples in the “How TOON works” section focuses on number of characters instead of tokens. I would think “null” is a single token anyway, why bother replacing it with an uncommon character?
sceptic1233 days ago
Isn't there value to the verbose information too? Knowing what a tool does and what the inputs are increase the likelyhood of successful tool calls.
Loic3 days ago
I spent more than one week, as a side project, to add an MCP server to my Cheméo website. Only 4 tools.
It took me way more time than expected, I was thinking: "Just wrap the REST API, 2h, done".
The MCP payload has nothing to do with the REST API one. Because you need to make it interpretable and context efficient even so it is structured data.
It was really interesting work and I suppose very little people are taking the time to rethink what is sent over the wire while creating a MCP server. If so, we would not have MCPs with the minimal payload being 500kB of JSON soup.
If you send my MCP through your "save token filter", I can guarantee you, that you will have trash down the line.
maxrev173 days ago
Yeah this is why a code execution sandbox so the ai can batch calls and select from the response format what it wants and limit the number of responses with instruction to be concise and preserve its context is a really cool thing to do.
spiderfarmer3 days ago
This is where using a framework really shines. I used Laravel MCP which makes it trivial to add MCP tools to your CRUD.
ameshkov3 days ago
I made an MCP proxy with a similar idea in the past: replace a ton of tools that consume tokens with just two (get_tool_schema, invoke_tool) - https://github.com/ameshkov/mcp-compress-router
One thing that I noticed is that it’s often better to return tool names with argument names, i.e. return “search_web(query)” instead of just “search_web” when listing tools. Otherwise models often tend to hallucinate argument names and an extra turn is required to correct the mistake.
One additional advantage that such tools provide is that when you use different coding agents you don’t have to set up all the MCP servers in every agent, you just set up one (or point the agent to the cli like in this project).
victor_edka3 days ago
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moinism3 days ago
How do unresearched, vibe-coded projects like this reach the front page?
eterm3 days ago
I'm convinced that the majority of upvotes are based on reading a title rather than clicking through to an article.
People want a token efficient MCP CLI client. Whether this actually is one is less relevant.
wannabe443 days ago
I like to know the average age of accounts which upvoted this post.
maxrev173 days ago
Bots, bots everywhere
colwont2 days ago
I was wondering this too, I worked on a project for weeks, posted on HN and got shadowbanned lmao
philipp-gayret3 days ago
OP, I'm very interested in seeing an actual comparison ran through a common tokenizer of tool calls. I think you'll find different results than what you intended for this tool to be. You've mixed up tokens with characters on your screen.
mcptokensaveropa day ago
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stephantul3 days ago
I think that some of these choices (as others have commented) show that the author has not investigated how tokenization works.
Tokenization is not some black box, you can run tokenizers and check them.
mcptokensaveropa day ago
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saretup3 days ago
> zero information lost
You're just returning the name of the tool, the rest of the information (description/input schema) is definitely lost. Cut to the LLM making mistakes in calling the tool with incorrect schema or calling the wrong tools altogether, recovering, wasting tokens and cycles.
mcptokensaveropa day ago
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wannabe443 days ago
I am not going to trust a single number thrown by these AI hustlers written in that salesman voice.
Leave alone 97%.
> Your agent calls 20 tools. Each returns 500-3,000 tokens wrapped in {"content":[{"type":"text","text":"..."}]}.
This is a problem with your tool design. Most MCPs are fully vibe coded without any thought about tool selection.
> On a 128K context window, that's 30-55% gone. Not on work. On syntax.
Tool output is not "syntax" you donkey clanker.
Again, use the code approach, let the LLM filter out the JSON using tools. This TOON thing is just vibes. Most of the time your tool output should not even be JSON. It should be well formatted markdown. In cases where it's large structured data, your LLM should have tools (code / jq) to dissect it. So TOON is pointless.
liminal-dev3 days ago
I’m going to start using “donkey clanker”.
anshumankmr3 days ago
I like the idea, but this seems a little too aggressive, JSON (287 tokens) — what every other MCP client returns: ~~~ [ {"name": "search_web", "description": "Search the web for information", "inputSchema": {"type": "object", "properties": {"query": {"type": "string", "description": "Search query"}, "num_results": {"type": "number", "default": 5}}, "required": ["query"]}}, {"name": "fetch_url", "description": "Fetch content from a URL", "inputSchema": {"type": "object", "properties": {"url": {"type": "string"}}, "required": ["url"]}} ] TOON (5 tokens) — what mcptoon returns:
search_web fetch_url
~~~
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alxhslm3 days ago
Don’t quite see the point of this. It is well known that MCP is a bit bloated for coding agents at least.
But, why not just use CLIs for each tool? That seems to be where things are going anyway
And using MCP as an internal communication method seems odd when you could use the APIs directly
vasco3 days ago
I really doubt that null and \n make any sense to replace with non ascii symbols. They are both most likely already a token only and for other purposes at least \n becomes larger as a symbol.
dthedavid3 days ago
How does it work? Im building a video editor and right now it has access to nearly 100 tools. Would be good to learn the techniques you used to make tool discovery more efficient.
arjie3 days ago
The readme has some examples for what it does. It doesn’t list the entire schema (noisy). Instead it uses shorthand. Perhaps a sufficiently smart agent can do this.
kk38383683973733 days ago
sorry, is Headroom still a thing? What happened to it? Is anyone still using it? so many things , which one is actually working :/ idk this ai world
ekisu3 days ago
Somewhat related to this project, I'm surprised that not all harnesses are using something like CodeMode for MCPs.
Been experimenting with it in the OpenCode V2 beta and it's pretty great. The combination of tool search, call chaining and field projections feels just right and saves a lot of context. LLMs are good at writing code, who would have thought that?
bobkinartem3 days ago
I thought Codex and Claude Code agents are already token-efficient so writing agents that saves tokens is pointless.
mcptokensaverop2 days ago
Good point - Claude Code does defer tool loading when definitions exceed 10% of context. That helps a lot.
But they are solving different problems. Deferred loading is "don't load tools until you need them." mcptoon is "when you do load them, the listing is 5x smaller." They are complementary - you can defer loading AND compress what gets loaded.
The scenario where mcptoon helps most is when you actually need all your tools loaded (e.g., a coding session where the agent might call any of 96 tools). Claude Code's deferral would not kick in if you are actively using tools from all 5 servers.
denis-stable3 days ago
I don't know about Codex, but Claude Code defers loading tools if their definitions exceed 10% of the context, https://code.claude.com/docs/en/mcp#how-it-works.
vichle3 days ago
Are they though? Will they always be? Is it in their interest to be efficient?
bobkinartem2 days ago
Fair enough
notpushkin3 days ago
Cool! Can we get a human-efficient MCP CLI while at it? I want to be able to use MCP just as well as the LLMs can.
swedishagentic3 days ago
How is this different from headroom? Mcptoon seems like it's specific to tool calls. https://github.com/headroomlabs-ai/headroom
codingjoe3 days ago
Q: aren't models trained to message templates using JSON for tool calls. Would a model inherently struggle with a different format?
Q: is there a measurable difference compared to harnesses with tool search?
mcptokensaveropa day ago
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bythreads3 days ago
Sorry, isnt this just compression? Lookups burn tokens just on the other end?
hnlmorg3 days ago
I really think we’ve missed a trick using JSON instead of SExpressions as the default marshaller for AI tool use.
Avery293 days ago
Making MCP context cost visible before the agent sees it feels like a useful debugging tool, not just an optimization.
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mengram-ai3 days ago
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setgraph3 days ago
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handsometong3 days ago
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quantumeon3 days ago
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kepalabergetar33 days ago
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