lumrn2 hours ago
Just adding some context on the AC and the building as well which was explained by journalist David Carretta (who follows EU politics, written in Italian) here https://x.com/davcarretta/status/2071592636260012175.
To summarise, AC was turned off floor by floor, with the switch off starting from 16:00 over a Friday, a time when most administrative personnel is getting off work for the weekend. The entire building had AC switched off by the end of the day, including the upper floors. Note that AC was working fine this Monday.
throwa356262an hour ago
Oh please, I needed my daily dose of internet rage and EU hate and here you are with you damn facts.
/s
(Seriously, look at these comments. What is happening to HN? Is this what previously productive people now do with their free time while their agents are churning?)
cassepipe2 hours ago
The first image is telling: A glass building in front of a white hard-floor plaza with just one small tree for shade
Nothing specific to the European commission though, we just don't hate mainstream architects enough
delichon2 hours ago
It's not exactly the Council of Elrond. It's appropriate for the design to be closer to Barad-dûr than Rivendell.
wlesieutrean hour ago
If we're pulling LotR references, a white plaza with one tree is the Court of the Fountain at the top of Minas Tirith
ricardobayesan hour ago
What's up with the knee-jerk hate on EU lately?
kleiba2an hour ago
Not the EU, just the Commission.
amarantan hour ago
The US is going to shit, and the Americans want to pretend everywhere is equally bad and it's not just them..
It is, of course, just them.
arsan hour ago
Thousands of people died in the EU over this heat, and you think it's American that isn't doing well?
"more than 1300 excess deaths have been recorded since 21 June linked to the extreme heat in Europe"
"There were approximately 489,000 heat-related deaths annually between 2000 and 2019, according to modeled estimates."
https://wmo.int/media/news/record-breaking-heat-spreads-thro...
tavavex12 minutes ago
What? Did the EU cause the heat wave? This thread is clearly about politics, and the parent claims that Americans complain about the EU and its politics because their own have gone completely off the rails. Disparaging the EU over a crazy heat wave is like criticizing a country because it has had a major natural disaster recently.
arsa minute ago
[delayed]
cineticdaffodil2 hours ago
It would burn less, if not all these abstract architects would sit in old art nouveau buildings near a park, with the AC tastefully hidden in the backyard - and there they sit on the MAC, shitting out these etched waver under the ERM buildings and cities for the rest of us to be miserable in.
651021 minutes ago
It once struck me that so called school chairs are actually far more fascinating than one would think. To me, they are the ultimate symbol of something one would never buy to use yourself.
https://www.google.com/search?num=10&sa=X&sca_esv=9e14c54052...
Look at those torture devices! They don't even look like chairs.
Oras2 hours ago
> The heat wave has prompted a renewed discussion about the lack of air-conditioning systems in homes and offices across much of Europe
Discussion, common sense requires discussion. All you need to know about them in one sentence.
mancerayderan hour ago
Well the Greens in Europe handed Russia leverage thanks to relying on natural gas instead of nuclear, which it opposed (thanks German Greens).
In France these ideologues oppose A/C becauase it's evil: it makes us comfortable when we should be uncomfortable - if we are comfortable in an era of climate change, we'll only make it worse. And it's all America's fault anyway because of their emissions.
When do we vote out ideologues and have logical people in power?
redserkan hour ago
This nuclear argument is getting quite stale. Germany seems to be investing quite a bit in other energies just fine.
https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/DE/live/fifteen_min...
120GW of nameplate solar capacity is nothing to sneeze at even with the latitude challenge. That's more solar than almost all of California's energy generation combined, or most of the eastern United States.
Tarq0n2 hours ago
In the past with harmful refrigerants and lack of renewable energy AC simply was not justifiable in most of Europe. Progress on both fronts plus global warming is changing that only recently.
bee_rideran hour ago
On the bright side they’ve probably waited long enough to roll out heat pumps instead of window ACs, right?
quantummagican hour ago
As far as I know, a heat pump and an AC unit are essentially identical. Although some heat pumps can be reversed, and act as heaters in the winter. But one isn't more efficient than the other, they employ the exact same physical refrigeration cycle.
bee_rideran hour ago
Oh, I had them filed in by brain under “more efficient temperature control” but it looks like they don’t have an advantage over ACs when cooling. (Just over typical heaters, when heating). Oops.
wil421an hour ago
That’s true however moving heat in the winter is much better than burning things.
Gas furnaces are 80%-98% efficient, heat pumps are 300-400%.
coryrcan hour ago
I think GP's point is that winter heating can shift to nuclear- and wind-powered instead of mostly burning fossil fuels.
quantummagican hour ago
Some of the discussion going online, has asserted that heat related deaths in Europe exceed gun related deaths in the USA by some margin. If true, it has been ignored as a problem for too long.
delectian hour ago
Yeah, annual heat deaths in Europe (about 70k) exceed annual gun deaths in the US (about 44k) in absolute numbers. They're slightly under US gun deaths if you adjust for population (about 13 per 100k gun deaths in the US, and 12 heat deaths per 100k in Europe).
In comparison, fewer than 2k people die annually of heat in the US, well under 1 per 100k. And for symmetry, there are about 7k gun deaths annually in the EU, which is just slightly under 1 per 100k.
pseudo037 minutes ago
The WHO claims it's over 170k heat-related deaths per year, not 70k.
janalsncm31 minutes ago
So in summary, the chance of a person dying from heat or guns is roughly equal in the EU and the US.
zzzeek2 hours ago
there is significant resistance to air conditioning in Europe at many levels (all of which are invalid or solvable):
* "not technically feasible" - people talk about old buildings with oddly shaped windows
* "can't afford it" - as you see here. people talk about the units themselves and the electricity bills
* "our infrastructure can't handle it" - this has to do with things like grids overheating, failing
* "our infrastructure can't handle <the regulations>" - things like nuclear reactors in France not allowed to raise the temperature of rivers by another N degrees during a heat wave
* "it's bad for global warming" - a little late for that, probably should save lives first
literally hospitals in europe don't have AC throughout the entire building yet. global warming is really coming at them fast
basisword2 hours ago
Most ordinary working people can't afford the cost of installing a system. Even a portable one.
Edit: Downvoted because HN users don't understand living paycheque to paycheque. Talk about an echo chamber.
graton2 hours ago
> Most ordinary working people can't afford the cost of installing a system. Even a portable one.
I just watched a video where a person bought a £200 portable unit. He was using it in the UK and said he spent about £0.89 / day. And I'm assuming they won't use it for that many days a year.
Seems affordable enough for "most ordinary working people"
scrlk2 hours ago
As a side note, it's nearly impossible to buy a dual-hose portable AC in the UK and Europe. For whatever reason, the market has converged on inefficient single-hose portable ACs.
black3r2 hours ago
It's not that expensive. There are other reasons why people can't install one in Europe than money. Mostly for people living in apartments. In an apartment building you need the approval of other apartment owners to "modify the building facade". And some people have terrible neighbors. Another thing that happens in Europe is that if the building is 100+ years old, it's facade may be protected as a "historic building" and then you need another approval from some bureaucrats which are responsible for protecting historic buildings. And of course if you're renting, you need to convince your landlord if you want a proper AC not a portable one.
hparadiz2 hours ago
People on here will literally write walls of text over the most mundane nonsense.
Get a free standing unit like this: https://i.imgur.com/giewYeK.png
Shove the plastic tube outlet out of a window. End of installation. You're welcome.
Seriously why is this so difficult and what is this learned helplessness? You would rather be miserable than do literally anything?
black3r42 minutes ago
I have one like that and so do my parents. But they're much less effective than classic split AC with an outside unit. A regular split can cool a bigger room to 24 even when it's 38 outside and is basically completely quiet. A portable AC cools down smaller rooms to ~27 when it's 38 outside and is noisy (50-60 dB).
Markoff2 hours ago
you don't need that on balcony, most of the apartments have balcony, stupid excuse, same applies for historical buildings with balcony
If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
If there is a balcony and you install it there, so nobody can see it from the street, is there an AC installed? Can you even use your balcony the way you want and place there big cardboard box if you need? Same thing. Facade is a one thing, balcony is something completely different, if you can't even use it, what's the point in having it.
ExoticPearTree2 hours ago
A 12K BTU mini-split system is about 300EUR. How is this unaffordable for most people? Even an 18K unit is about 500-600EUR.
boesboesan hour ago
Where? The only mobile split unit i can find is 899
antonkochubey2 hours ago
Realistically a decent mini-split that won't break in a year and won't make too much noise starts at ~€600-800 + €400 installation in a low-labor-cost country (Latvia), in high-labor-cost countries such as Germany the installation bit might be twice-thrice as expensive.
alistairSHan hour ago
Relative to buying the house/apartment in the first place, that's still not much money.
wnevets2 hours ago
Something is very wrong with the EU if ordinary Europeans can't afford a $150 window unit.
rapsey2 hours ago
It's not the money. In many places you need to go through permitting to get it and they do not want to give it to you. Often you also need a signed approval from every person in the building.
wnevetsan hour ago
There is something very wrong in the EU if installing a life saving window air conditioner requires a permit or signed approval from every person in the building.
rapsey7 minutes ago
They literally built a new hospital in germany without AC. 28C/82F degrees in surgery.
mytailorisrich26 minutes ago
This is true. In many places you can't install the outdoor unit on the street-facing side of the building without approval, and you won't get it in most cases, and this is indeed in addition to getting approval from your building's residents association if you live in a flat.
mtoner23an hour ago
so yes something is very wrong
Oras2 hours ago
Most people can’t afford private jets, let’s ban them for those officials then
braingravy2 hours ago
Sounds good! It was a waste to begin with. They can handle first-class.
Markoff2 hours ago
funny take
Bulgaria is one of the poorest EU countries and I have seen there way more ACs than in much richer Czechia or elsewhere, this is not about price at all
heck, even in Czechia I find much more ACs in some poor cities compared to the richest Prague, I've seen bigger AC ratio per apartment in my small poor ~40K hometown than in Prague, in our 40 units building in Prague I was the first one to have AC, after many years now followed by neighbor under me, 2 out of 40 units in relatively rich Prague, crazy (though it's true our top corner of the building is warmest from all apartments)
christkv2 hours ago
What are you on about. They are not expensive at all. What they can't afford is to pay the electrical bill of running one.
antonkochubey2 hours ago
My multisplit system costs <€60 a month to run even during the hottest months, which is way below heating costs during winter. And that's keeping entire apartment at constant 22ºC - people with higher "comfort temperature" can keep the bill significantly lower.
caycep2 hours ago
unless they also come w/ rooftop solar?
new mini splits are way more efficient than older systems as well.
insulation in older homes/buildings might be an issue though
cineticdaffodil2 hours ago
Ironically- while often having solar on the roof.
basisword41 minutes ago
I got a 7000BTU one last week. One of cheapest I could find (I suspect some price gouging given the timing of my purchase). Very small, works in one small room. It was about £400. None of my family or friends have £400 sitting around that they can spend on a whim to save them a few weeks of suffering. A huge number of people live paycheque to paycheque and have no savings or credit lines available to them.
vovavili2 hours ago
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
papichulo20232 hours ago
This is a reference to Animal Farm, right?
felooboolooomba32 minutes ago
No, Scrooge McDuck right before he sodomized Donald Duck.
dylan6042 hours ago
This exact quote ran through my mind and I was tempted to post it.
vmilner10 minutes ago
Yes Minister on point as usual
frollogaston2 hours ago
"even with working AC, the temperature inside was still 25.7 degrees."
So 78F. I wonder what temp the lower/non-AC floors are at. It's reasonable if they want to prevent the upper floors from becoming insanely hot, since hot air rises.
cmoskian hour ago
"A third staffer working on the 8th floor told POLITICO on Friday that even with working AC, the temperature inside was still 25.7 degrees."
I set my AC to 26 degrees. Otherwise it feels too cold.
deaux40 minutes ago
This is Daily Mail (or Fox News for fellow Americans) level tripe, and you can be almost sure of this just based on the title. Designed for dopamine maximization.
dotcoma2 hours ago
Reminds me of Animal Farm.
anonzzziesan hour ago
Air conditioning weirdness around the EU: I live in the EU and everyone I know, including not too well off people on benefits and pensions, have aircon. I have multiple houses and dozens of aircons, but many friends in small apartments have them too, mostly since covid. In one house I have them running summer and winter 247 and the electric bill is still below 100E, way lower than people with swimming pools.
kleiba2an hour ago
It depends on the country. If you live in a place that - traditionally - had only an expected few days of really hot temperatures every summer, it wasn't worth the investment. With climate change, the temperatures are now higher and the heat stretches longer.
anonzzziesan hour ago
Agreed, the EU is not that small and Southern countries had to go before northern but now I feel it is pretty normal. Might be my circle of course. Or in a shorter way; YMMV. I know zero people without aircon and one couple live fulltime in a yurt.
caycep2 hours ago
With new inexpensive mini splits that do not require ducts, one would think adoption would go up?
dylan6042 hours ago
And all of those Europeans that had comments about the Texas ERCOT warnings of heavy loads during extreme weather. Although, it's been a while since I've received notices/requests to adjust the use even if they were bump it up a few degrees vs turn it off.
cineticdaffodil2 hours ago
Imagine offices- who have temperatures of 30+ directly beneath the roof. AC where the heat-exchangers are built inside the buildings and other nonsense on top. Europe is so not ready, while preaching to the world about getting ready.
Havoc2 hours ago
wow that’s an ugly look.
Kinda weird though even for Europe that a high profile 10+ floor commercial building doesn’t have suitable climate control
Varelion2 hours ago
Up vs down, always. Not surprising in the least.
invictati2 hours ago
The whole conversation about upper and lower floors is absurd. Obviously the upper floors are absorbing more sunlight and need more cooling.
Ground level and basement floors have been known as the coolest places in skyscrapers for centuries.
preommr2 hours ago
Except it wasn't the basement and first floor.
It was the first seven floors. Coincidentally, also the floors most of the higher-ups don't work on. Or at least that's how it's being reported, so I don't think people's outrage is absurd.
alistairSHan hour ago
4pm on a Friday, people were likely already heading home. This is being blown out of proportion.
The broader discussion about AC in Europe is good to have, but this specific story seems to be borderline click-bait.
phendrenad22 hours ago
Any building with modern (last 100 years) insulation is going to have relatively equal distribution of heat between the floors. Except the bottom floor, where people enter/exit and mix in outside air.
invictati6 minutes ago
[dead]
zuzululuan hour ago
What really appalls me is that they have now started to blame Americans for the heatwave that the hot air from AC units are to blame and doubling down on their insistence that AC are harmful to the climate and telling people to not use AC.
I really think that this is the straw that breaks the camel's back moment for EU. Right now people are learning that EU = unbearable heat and other things.
otikik2 hours ago
If the people in the lower decks were allowed to go home, I don't see the issue.
If they were forced to work without air conditioning and it was me, I would go to a doctor, tell them I am suffering from heat exhaustion, and get a voucher for not returning to work until the situation gets fixed.
alistairSHan hour ago
The shutdown began at 4pm on a Friday. So, yes, much of the building was on its way home for the weekend. And the higher floors are mostly allocated to the leadership/commissioners, who are more likely to work after hours.
Now, why can't the building handle running the AC without an emergency shutdown? No clue, seems odd to me, unless there was a neighborhood-wide power issue?
lysace2 hours ago
Related and a little ironic: houses in northern Europe nowadays typically have "AC" in the form of air-to-air heat pumps that both can heat and cool. Houses in southern and central Europe dramatically lag behind in terms of adoption.
rappatic2 hours ago
> Due to extreme weather conditions, forced shut down of air cooling system from floor 1 to 7 for the rest of the day
It's like satire. What is AC for if not extreme heat?
slillibri2 hours ago
When there is not enough AC, people sweat. It’s better for half to sweat to death so the other half can remain frosty.
Arntan hour ago
FWIW this happened on Friday afternoon and the AC was back in working order on Monday morning.
wongarsu2 hours ago
Historically temperatures above 30C (86F) were rare in Europe, so thats what many ACs are sized for. Now they face 40C (104F), and many AC installations can't keep up
Shutting down AC on floors 1 to 7 likely allows them to get better performance on floors 8 to 13
[deleted]an hour agocollapsed
mytailorisrichan hour ago
That's not true. Temperature above 30C are the norm in summer in Southern Europe (which means quite higher in the Sun and in a heat trap location). Now, yes 40C isn't.
But I am unconvinced that AC manufacturers have different "sizing"... An AC unit is for hot places and the outdoor unit may be in a very hot spots with ambient easily above 40C.
Edit: Yes, AC systems for a whole building are different but still the system on the roof experiences the full Sun and very hot conditions, this isn't the issue. Perhaps they simply badly designed it so that it hasn't got the capacity to cool the whole building when it's actually hot so they prioritised (actually now I get that this is what you meant). Obviously it is easier to blame "weather conditions"...
Arntan hour ago
That building doesn't have the kind of outdoor unit you're thinking of, it has central climate control and gadgetry on the roof. You can see it on Google Maps.
Also 19 satellite antennae, if my count is right.
wongarsuan hour ago
Brussels is however not in Southern Europe
By sizing I simply mean the number and capacity of roof units. Cooling an office building down by 8C is a lot easier than cooling it by 18C. I doubt half the roof units are shut down. Maybe some are, but most will have their output redirected to cooling the top half of the building
mytailorisrich43 minutes ago
In which case it would be just plain bad design if you can't have the whole building on AC when you actually need it...
Edit: it'd be interesting to know how many buildings in Belgium have had the same issue.
gambiting16 minutes ago
You can leave it on when you actually need it - meaning all summer long, in the conditions that are typical for that location.
It's like saying what's the point of having a house if you aren't safe in it during a tornado. It's an exceptional event. The problem is that these truly exceptional events which only happened once every 10 days for a day or two, are now becoming a norm. My own 12k BTU minisplit could cool my house down every summer, no problem, even down to 18C if I wanted it to. But in the recent heatwave it just can't keep up, there is more heat coming into the house than the system can remove.
gambiting2 hours ago
Normal day to day cooling, I mean, obviously? Like if you have a system designed to operate in 25-30C(normal summer in most of Europe) but then you have a spike of temperatures going to 40C for a few days in a row, it shouldn't really be a surprise the system doesn't work in conditions it wasn't designed for? The compressor overheats and shuts down, especially if it wasn't installed in the shade.
Just like heat pumps for heating in winter are amazing for our regular mild-ish winters, but if you get a really cold spell and it drops to -35C, it's just not going to work at all to a point where it might not even start - you could also say "well what's the point of a heating system that can't heat in extreme cold".
The extreme is the keyword.
kgwxd2 hours ago
[flagged]
cbarnes992 hours ago
Why the fuck does extreme heat require turning off the AC?
dranudin2 hours ago
The A/C cannot keep up the load, due to the exteme heat. So they decided to just not cool one part of the building, to be able to keep cooling the other part .. It is now interesting who was in which part ;)
forgotaccount3an hour ago
Clearly those in floors 1->7 were less important and thus allowed to take the day off and/or work remotely, right?
alistairSHan hour ago
It was 4pm on Friday, so yes, they were probably heading home already.
mytailorisrich2 hours ago
If that's the case then the building's system was very badly designed...
gwbas1c44 minutes ago
It was designed for historical, pre-climate-change weather. (Or at least when those were in the know about climate change thought we'd solve it.)
mytailorisrich41 minutes ago
There's probably a "Belgian joke" to be made if their AC is only designed to work when it isn't hot...
alistairSHan hour ago
That seems true - it's not a historic building - it was built in the mid- to late-1960s.
gwbas1c41 minutes ago
Because a lot of electric grids are too old to handle the increased load.
To translate: When it's hot, air conditioners use more electricity. This is because they use more electricity because they have to work harder to keep a cool temperature.
The reason why electric grids are too old to handle the load is because:
Electric grids were built for smaller populations with the assumption that we'll build more as we make more babies; AND; electric grids weren't built to handle the temperature rise from climate change.
pgalvin2 hours ago
The article indicates they were unable to handle the increased electricity load, which caused blackouts.
Additionally, sometimes unnaturally high temperatures break AC systems put in place with poor planning. This is very common in UK supermarkets every summer.
ctoth2 hours ago
> unnaturally high temperatures
> poor planning.
> very common in UK supermarkets every summer.
What?
SiempreViernes2 hours ago
Global warming keeps making the temperature unnaturaly high, don't tell me you didn't hear about it.
ctothan hour ago
If it's every summer, how is it unnatural? If it's poor planning how is it every summer? There's poor planning and then there's ... what, forgetting that summer happens? It sounds to me like somebody sat down and penciled in some numbers and decided that "it makes less money to let it break?" which seems pretty weird when you consider second-order stuff (but it's not like people tend to do that anyway)
black3r2 hours ago
my guess is that the outdoor AC unit reached its maximum working temperature...
since we're not that used to extreme heat in EU, units with max working temperatures of 45 degrees Celsius are pretty common and the air around the AC unit is warmer than regular outdoors air, doubly so if they're placed on the ground and the glass from the building reflects some additional heat from the sun.
the risk of this was broadcasted in our local news for home AC owners when the forecast reached 40, as lots of apartments have the AC on partly glass-encased balconies, or on walls facing direct sunlight...
wongarsu2 hours ago
Based on the little information provided the AC can't keep up. So they cut off the lower half of the building to provide better cooling to the other half
ceejayoz2 hours ago
Which, as heat rises, is probably reasonable.
nickff2 hours ago
Seems like power shortages:
>”The European Parliament has also faced blackouts this week due to energy consumption from cranking up its cooling system.”
basisword2 hours ago
Presumably the AC systems themselves couldn't operate in that extreme heat. A lot of grocery stores in the UK, which are icy cold usually, had major issues with AC and refrigeration systems failing - I think because a lot of the equipment is on the roof and exposed to the heat.
pkaye2 hours ago
Its pretty common to se the AC systems on the top of roofs on big buildings in the US. From what I read, exposing the AC condenser unit to the sun should have minimal impact. Air flow through the condenser unit matters the most. Perhaps they were undersized for the extreme heat now happening in the UK.
lstodd2 hours ago
AC systems don't quite care about direct sunlight, they are forced air heat exchangers. Now if the condenser (rooftop) side is undersized and therefore inadequate given elevated ambient air temperature all you can do is shut down a portion of evaporation side (the cold one) off, or the entire system just stops working.
Alternatively one can install water sprinkers on roofs like they do in China.
