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> force them to use TURN servers that are more centralized and easier to spy on

Webrtc traffic is encrypted as it travels through the TURN servers, isn't it? Sure, you get some which-ip-contacted-which-using-what-service metadata, but any active middleman able to mess with STUN traffic already has that.

It could just be that someone's fucked up a setting somewhere. I mean, the reason WebRTC has loads of options for 'interactive connectivity establishment' is because it's common to see users behind NAT, users whose NAT cant be traversed with STUN, IPv6 being broken, UDP getting blocked, TCP ports other than port 443 getting blocked, etc etc.

If a country's ISPs use CGNAT to avoid giving users precious IPv4 addresses, and world events made the ISPs turn the security settings up to 11, STUN just stops working.

ZeroTier has "roots," which are nodes that relay packets and also tell you what your IP info is. Everyone in the world connects to a pool of these.

Other than relaying and STUN-like IP info reflection, they're dumb and do very little. They can't see your traffic or other information or even what virtual networks you're on.

Once both sides learn their external info, they communicate via the root to arrange P2P rendezvous. If both have IPv6 they use that, but still do a hole punch due to stateful firewalls. But with V6 it works almost 100% of the time. If one or both have V4, they do more cumbersome V4 hole punch maneuvers.

Our next-gen product, which is still in pre-release and has been shown only to some enterprise customers, is called ZeroTier Quantum. It's called that cause it's built on PQC (pqNoise to be exact) but it's also a full-scale reengineering of the whole system. But it still uses very similar techniques. Everything is in-band. No STUN, TURN, or even DNS dependencies.

Civilians have died by the tens of thousands in these wars, starting long before random gamers far from the killing and dying started having connection issues

These are dudes, likely some of them teenagers, playing Street Fighter and Tekken.

Who signed up for what?

That's not what I meant. Civilians have died by the tens of thousands in these wars, starting long before random gamers far from the frontlines started having connection issues

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Civilians have died by the tens of thousands in these wars, starting long before random gamers far from the killing and dying started having connection issues

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I wish HN would ban posting links to issue trackers with comment sections, like lobsters has done. Although the spam volume from HN and reddit is pretty small compared to that from youtube reaction video influencers

Not only. I see it across all of GitHub. Spam, +1 comments, feature begging are all particularly common.

...What? Is this the Linus Sebastian misconception of what the hard R is?

Goal post moving.

It doesn't work adding it to the actual title, and the Github issue title is misleading without the context of what the issue is published on, so babuskov is doing us a favor by setting one that's informative.

It's so funny when people come up with these arguments so confidently and then seeing them getting disproved so quick. Bro was never more glad there's anonymity on the internet

> Technical issues don't float in a perfect vacuum sphere.

I agree. But if there is a chance to not immediately draw in the wrong crowd... I prefer if people take it.

But would it actually help. More employees means more communication and overhead. Lean organisations can move much quicker. Part of why valve can do what valve does is how lean it runs.

Steam was rewritten in React relatively recently. I think most people formed their opinion of Steam back when it was mostly developed in VGUI, the same in-house native UI framework Valve used in games for stuff like the Half-Life 2 title screen and the TF2 server browser.

> Steam's UI is so slow to react due to its web roots

I actually wouldn't blame the web roots. Battle.net is also a CEF based launcher and it feels so much more snappy compared to Steam. For some reason Steam just feels really slow.

grug tribal animal, tribe always there even when chief say is not

In this case we're talking about P2P traffic, which is generally not HTTPS. The linked issue references WebRTC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC

Encrypted by Cloudflare, so they just use the keys to decrypt it again.

Steam is also a child gambling company that sells loot boxes to kids but it could be a lot worse. From the perspective of someone getting ripped off it doesn't matter whether it was Gaben who scammed you, but he and his empire could still be a lot worse overall.

You're allowed to say what you just said in that post without getting taken away at night and your family never talking about you again. Or a drone taking you out while you sleep. Palantir logs all our comments and it would be trivially easy for them if there weren't still some lingering democratic handrails holding them back.

You're also typing on a computer on HN, so you're a "beneficiary of the empire" regardless of where you live. As someone who apparently reads leftist theory you should know to look at the big picture on world-historical questions rather than getting emotional, like the people who say USSR was just as evil as WW2 Germany because it also killed gormillions of people.

Democracy in the US is dying and may not last another generation. It was something that helped imperial workers and limited the power of the ruling elite, like unions. Unions, like democracy as a whole, are dying. Unions were also corrupt and complicit in imperialist war crimes during the Cold war. Unions in the West have always been connected to labor aristocracy and imperialism. That said, unions as a whole are still a good thing. We should still mourn the decline of labor unions and miss the days when they kept the elite in check and allowed so many working people to live a decent life.

Steam is also likely to become an ordinary ripoff company one day soon. I will miss this historical aberration among pure ripoff services. Just like I will miss being able to vote and dissent without drones zapping me.

Why aren't the customers going to Epic Game Store? It's the PC, after all. It's explicitly not a walled garden

It’s fascinating how (mostly western liberal) game developers argue in favor of 99% taxes for general population “for maintaining infrastructure” and yet cannot fathom paying a fee for maintaining actual infrastructure that is necessary for their business to function.

He already did lol, just didn't update the main website. Doesn't work very well for me, but it's something.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xonotic/comments/1tyqx5w/i_ported_x...

Starting a sustainable steam competitor with piracy sure seems like a great idea!