michaelt11 hours ago
It's pretty simple to understand - when a user opens a tool, it's because they want to do the thing that tool does, now.
If someone opens my videoconferencing product 98% of the time it's they've got a scheduled call to join within the next 20 seconds. They're not going to be late for their meeting so they can read my release notes.
If someone opens my PDF viewer, 99.9% chance they want to view the PDF they just opened. Very rare someone opens the PDF reader because they're just having a look around to see if there are any interesting new features.
If someone opens my virtual whiteboard product, 95% chance they're in some sort of sprint review meeting and they want to write some virtual post-it notes right now. A tour isn't what they need.
If someone opens the ticket management product, or the expense report filing product, or the music playing product... you get the picture.
faangguyindia8 hours ago
I've never liked those "focus hijacking guided tours" and never really followed through any such onboarding process.
But they are so common, i don't know who designs them and makes me feel like 5yo.
You gotta understand, people will use the product you made, in a way that makes sense to them, not according to your devised "one way". And that's fine because it allows user to own his workflow using your product.
I like the "checklist" and "load sample data" approach better.
This is primary reason perhaps why my apps are growing fast.
Groxx5 hours ago
I don't like the focus-hijacking things because it tends to obscure the parts of the UI that you will have to deal with in the next experience. You are given an accelerated tour that does not match the muscle-memory that you will need when you actually use it.
Raising the visibility of something, or pointing an arrow at it is fine, but don't dim and block the rest of the UI immediately because I might need it for context to understand what the hell you want me to click next and why. If I can't do that, then it's just a forced speedrun of 20 steps that I will immediately forget.
It feels like many of these forgot that the point is to teach for the future, not to boost extremely short term interaction metrics. Showing (much less a single time) is not usually enough to teach, you need to establish context so they understand why instead of just what, and generally offer repetition.
zerkten7 hours ago
>> But they are so common, i don't know who designs them and makes me feel like 5yo.
Often these are the product managers building follow-on features that don't get the usage they want. Users aren't using them, but monthly usage is the currency of so much PM work that they have to try to draw attention to it.
hirako20005 hours ago
It's a race to the bottom, for any tool out there the negative reviews boil down to complexity. If not: no instruction.
Some people don't know how to operate a TV remote controller, unless it has 1 or 2 buttons.
It's protection against the frustration that a few experience: ultimately unable to use a thing or jam it. At the expense of the majority bugged by mild distraction.
wodenokoto6 hours ago
Final fantasy 7, released in 1997 had one. That’s the earliest I remember
chromacity6 hours ago
Another reason why I often skip them is that for "tech" products, the tours almost never cover how I want to use the product. Instead, they tell me how the vendor wants me to use the product.
Browsers are especially notorious for this. When I get a tour for a new feature, it's almost always just some new, tacked-on junk to disable. "Check out our bundled VPN", "Use Copilot to shop for socks", "You now have more privacy choices" (meaning we opted you into some invasive data-collection feature). I just want to browse the internet.
duskdozer3 hours ago
Well, exactly. How are the KPIs on the new feature they shipped going to meet target unless they add a user nudge toward desirable behavior?
lazaroclapp4 hours ago
Interestingly, there are basically two kinds of programs I am sometimes happy to see guided tours embedded in:
* Creation programs (image/video editors, 3D rendering... hell, even a slides program or an IDE). Doesn't mean I won't dismiss them sometimes anyways, but these are tools that often I do want to get an initial idea how to use, that I have allotted some time to play around with, and that are sufficiently complex that a tutorial is justified. These are also places were I can spend 2-5 minutes learning the basics of the tool, because whatever I am about to do with it is going to take the next few hours anyways.
* Videogames (i.e. the tutorial). For very similar reasons to the above ;)
Also, this is always on first install. Getting a tutorial on update for an authoring tool (and to a lesser extent a game) is far less likely to be welcome.
PetitPrince9 minutes ago
> * Videogames (i.e. the tutorial). For very similar reasons to the above ;)
Oftentimes it's less jarring to have an invisible tutorial though (a level made to exploit the new gameplay element / feature). But it depends on what you want the user to learn and the type of videogame; I don't mind a guided tour in more strategic games (RTS, turn by turn RPG, ...).
atoav2 hours ago
So the types of programs you usually bring time to exploratively use anyways.
anitil9 hours ago
Often I see that there's a new feature, and I'm interested in it, but my options are do the demo now, or hide it. But I want to do it later! I'm admittedly terrible at operating GUIs, so maybe it's just a me issue
arthens38 minutes ago
I agree this is the silliest part! Even if you are interested in them, the only option is often now or never again. Even worse sometimes you open an app/site and the onboarding/what's new pops up with a delay and you end up accidentally dismissing it without even seeing what it was
plorg4 hours ago
Perhaps I can interest you in the Firefox Mobile option: put a blue pip on the three dot menu and the "What's New" item that will never go away until you click on it.
edoceo9 hours ago
I want that too. Most of these tours interfere. A pattern I like is just a little dot indicator where the new thing is. It's not in the way. But if I click the dot, or it's menu item, then I see the tour.
Don't get in my face when I'm trying to get task done. Ain't nobody got time for that!
the_snooze10 hours ago
Too much of modern consumer-facing software think they're the ends, not the means.
Gigachad5 hours ago
It’s the hyper focusing on metrics. When a new feature comes out, the product people and managers are obsessing over the usage metrics for that one feature.
It’s why Windows feels like multiple different companies desperate for your attention, with internal adverts begging you to look at their new feature. Because that team needs people using it to look good on the analytics.
Vs a company like Apple which seems to operate at a higher level, they don’t care if you use iMovie or not, it’s there if you want it but they aren’t going to push every individual feature on you.
pjmlpan hour ago
Yes, Microsoft suffers from schizophrenic management, it is easier for externals to talk between teams than internal teams themselves, there are quite a few stories on the matter.
Apple really doesn't care how apps are used, Radar issues go untouched for several releases.
EDIT: missing "management".
mschildan hour ago
Apple has plenty examples of that behaviour as well.
To name one: if you ever connect any headphones with media controls and you accidentally press one of them while no media is playing, it will open up Apple Music. Its convoluted to stop that behaviour.
Its not as bad as Microslop but it does exist.
joriswan hour ago
That, and they forget they’re just one single experience in a person’s day of hundreds. The trivial part of the user’s day that the app represents, in no way warrants interruption.
davnicwil8 hours ago
this is so true and I think it's very instructive to have a regular look through this lens when thinking about building something.
You've got to think and care deeply about what you're creating while at the same time understanding it's of approximately zero interest to those who you're building for outside certain key moments of interaction. Try to just nail those as much as possible and beyond that, get out of the way.
I think this is the core of good design, that things make sense, are nice, and well explained to the point they are even fun to discover and explore when you care to go looking for them. If you don't care to, they're invisible and out of your way.
zbentley8 hours ago
But but but … how else will we turn a minor value add into a sticky source of recurring revenue? After all, there are no other profitable business models.
debarshri10 hours ago
Thats true for point solutions. You often dont find a guided product tour there.
Guided tour does have its place where the product is a workflow, a platform offering, has bunch of features and you want to introduce the feature to them.
If you are paying 10-25k USD per year, you expect some onboarding specialist who gives instructions on integrating ACH and payroll systems etc. It is very common for non-technical folk to hop on a onboarding call.
People often try to automate that as it is expensive, but i think people prefer that human touch esp. when you are paying alot of money.
rcxdude9 hours ago
Also because generally in those cases you don't really want a guided tour of the whole product, you have a problem you want solving and you would like to see how to solve that problem with the product. Which either talking to a person who knows the product or reading through some documentation/guides does, but a guided tour generally does not (or at least does not do efficiently).
bluGill7 hours ago
Or at the very least, at the price we're talking here, companies should be hiring a trainer who knows the product well, who can actually teach people and answer questions. not go through this, go through that, clicking that: half the things are not useful to their particular problems and shouldn't be taught at all to this group.
wffurr10 hours ago
Actually I get interrupted by a tour or popup when using a "point solution" all the time.
tomwheeler5 hours ago
Right. It's self-indulgence by product managers and/or designers who think users are as interested in the software as they are.
Worse yet, sometimes these tours seem to be a band-aid for an unintuitive UX. If usability was the priority, I'd discover new features on my own.
[deleted]10 hours agocollapsed
viceconsole3 hours ago
I get irritated by Zoom saying I need to update right when I open the app and want to join a call. Or even worse, sometimes I'll have had the app open (checking video and sound) and it won't notify about a required update until I actually go to join a call.
Never understood why they don't propose the update when the call has ended.
pancomplexop11 hours ago
100% - that's why it's so confusing why PMs/PMMs think they need to keep adding these to their products.
drdaeman10 hours ago
> so confusing why PMs/PMMs
Because their goal metric is number of tasks closed/features delivered (and this counts as one), not customers satisfied.
Plus, social parroting - a misconception that if it's popular and everyone does it it "can't be wrong".
Groxx5 hours ago
100% this.
If you want to offer a product tour, then offer it as a small dismissible notification-thing in the corner of the normal UI. Otherwise you run into this situation while also constantly being annoying to everyone who has used your product before.
Product tours and tutorial wizards and all those educational experiences can be excellent, but they must not get in the way. Visible is fine, interruptive is not.
kccqzy7 hours ago
Exactly. These guided tours should be triggered by users, and never automatically. For example old school Windows apps have a question mark button on their title bar that the user can click to activate help for any UI element.
bluGill7 hours ago
Unfortunately, even by the time old school, Windows was doing help, documentation was afterthought and usually worthless.
monkpit9 hours ago
My kids’ school uses a web portal to add money to their lunch accounts. My only task when I open this website is to pick an amount and click submit and give them my money.
Whose idea was it to show me a “what’s new” popup of all the jira tickets they closed in the last sprint?
What’s new? Nothing is new. It works just like it used to. Just take my money and leave me alone, please.
AnimalMuppet9 hours ago
But if you have (through whatever process) sent them a complaint that, say, "it doesn't work right using Firefox X.Y running on Windows 7", then those release notes might in fact be interesting to you. So there actually is a reason for you to be able to see them. Not for them to get in your way, though. 99% of the people won't care.
zbentley8 hours ago
99% won’t care, and 59% will find the what’s-new popup actively confusing, distracting, and hostile. Bad trade.
bluGill7 hours ago
No it won't because you're either going to already be using some other browser and you won't care or you'll be once again trying Firefox X.Y and you'll discover it does work.
baxtr4 hours ago
This is true but not always.
Sometimes people would have enough time for a product tour and still skip it because no one wants to be forced to do anything.
mrsvanwinkle4 hours ago
Please ignore my notif to onboard you on my misadventure of clicking the "555 Timer turns 55" frontpage news only to read through the end of your comment convinced I have to read it again to resolve this uncanny alt world where the 555 timer only works paired with its bt app like some anova sous vide pump
21asdffdsa123 hours ago
Wanna see what you can with this after the call - click [Take me to my Call- schedule a tour]. Tour only targets for power users and helping them. Shortcuts etc.
zacharybk7 hours ago
I 100% agree that no one uses your product to watch a walk-through, they’re there to do a job. The author primarily talks about new user onboarding.
While they do make the point about introducing new features, they don’t address how to make an interrupt-driven announcement successful with existing users.
Has anyone seen a good way to make ongoing update announcements
gfat7 hours ago
Linear has an in-app changelog in the bottom right that doesn’t get in the way of work. It’s synced with their changelog on the website and can be revisited anytime clicking the help menu icon. Pretty elegant.
badestrand7 hours ago
You can just have a bell icon that displays a little red (1) so the users know that they have a message/notification that they can, but don't have to, read.
iqp9 hours ago
New users are probably the only ones who really need guided product tours. If I'm a longtime existing user I'm far less likely to be interested in a guided tour.
asalahli8 hours ago
Even then, a new user account doesn't necessarily mean a new user.
Every time I start on a new job, I have to click through Slack's, Github's and many other dev tools' stupid guided tours for the hundredth time
bluGill7 hours ago
If your usability is good, you don't need a guided tour even as a new user because you can just figure out as a new user how it's supposed to work and get your job done. Guided tours and documentation should be limited to expert features that only a very rare subset of people need. The things everyone does should be obviously easy to use right away and so no helping or tour is needed.
Fr0styMatt889 hours ago
I feel the exact same way about tutorials in games that try and be comprehensive and show you everything.
Incremental games do an amazing job at this (things like Universal Paperclips, A Dark Room, etc); parts of the game are revealed to you as you need them and it's often a fun surprise. I don't think the same thing is directly applicable to productivity apps, but I wonder if something could be taken from the pattern.
This is timely -- I'm coding an app at the moment and had the fleeting thought that "hey I should do a new user onboarding tour thingy" and then remembered that in general I skip them, so I havne't made one :)
josefrichter41 minutes ago
This has been in Apple's Human Interface Guidelines for *decades*. I believe only recently it became more open towards "onboarding", but not much further beyond "if you really must...".
Yet onboarding is the holy grail of corporate products (maybe coz it feels like powerpoint presentation of the whole product?) and the holy grail of marketing brainwashing - carefully composed sequences of known psychological tricks and manipulations to "convert" people.
P.S. I'm not sure these floating tasks lists are much better. They always feel like unnatural pressure into something you don't need to do, aka. hardsell again. I came to the product to solve my tasks, not yours.
hatthew9 hours ago
This is a bit of a tangent, but cookie consent dialogs have exhausted my will to navigate anything blocking the content I care about. If I go to a new website and encounter any sort of popup, modal, or large banner, I will reflexively feel an urge to close the page unless there is an obvious dismiss button. I often need to see the content on the page and resign myself to navigating the dialog, but just as often I decide the content wasn't important anyways and close the page in <1 second.
ninkendo5 hours ago
Yeah, cookie banners, newsletter signups, “please disable your adblocker”, etc are the ultimate “hmm maybe I’ll just do something else” reality check for me.
Not only do I close the page but I typically lose interest in whatever I may have wanted to do on that page in the first place, and generally just put my phone down or close my laptop and do something else.
The web basically died several years ago for me. It was fun while it lasted.
tomwheeler5 hours ago
The leftmost icon on my browser toolbar is the "kill sticky" bookmarklet (https://github.com/t-mart/kill-sticky). I grew tired of sites hiding the dismiss buttons or omitting them entirely, so anytime something pops up on the page, I instinctively click that. Works on the vast majority of sites.
FergusArgyll3 hours ago
UBO zapper mode works well
hatthewan hour ago
That requires deciding which element to zap, which takes more brainpower than I'm willing to invest into a webpage that doesn't want to show me its content. Ctrl+W works every time.
faangguyindia8 hours ago
I got around this by not using cookies.
hatthew8 hours ago
cookies, newsletter popups, sign-in popups, product tours, soft paywalls, etc.
blanched10 hours ago
Personally, I generally dislike product tours.
On the other hand, I think it's interesting to compare the dislike in these comments (and elsewhere) to "RTFM" culture. What's the primary difference? That you can read the manual or use the product at your discretion? e.g. `ls` doesn't forcefully open the man page when you run it for the first time?
(I'm aware of the goomba fallacy and that these are likely two different groups of people - I still think it's interesting!)
wffurr10 hours ago
You nailed the primary difference. If I want to just use the tool I can do that; if I need to learn how to use a complex feature, I can consult the help or do a web search for a how to.
esafak10 hours ago
That works if you know the feature exists.
mook4 hours ago
I actually went through the Word 97 menus at some point to see what features it had. Unfortunately these days things no longer come with comprehensive menu bars.
wpm8 hours ago
That's why UIs that don't bury everything behind inscrutable squiggles and modals are great.
First thing I do in a new app or new web service is click all the stuff, try and get a lay of the land and understand the UI metaphors. It's much harder to do if there is a twee, condescending guided tour "hyuck hey there champ didja know the gear icon that says Settings next to it is where you can change some settings?" stopping me from doing that, and names hidden behind hover popovers and crappy monochrome SVGs of....shapes to serve as icons.
I am very unlikely to need every part of every tool, app, or service I use. I need to do one thing with it right away, and I need to find my way there and experiment to see how it works. I don't give a shit if I can have it waft my farts if I'm trying to compress a gif or something, the fart-wafter button just needs to be clear so at a time when I go "huh what does this do" I can figure it out non-destructively to see if I'm interested. If you need a big popup saying "We just added the Fart-Wafter! Want to know how to find it?", you've failed, utterly.
layer88 hours ago
The best software help used to have a complete list of all features, with comprehensive explanations of all of them.
bluGill7 hours ago
There are actually two different sites to the best help. There's that list of features and a comprehensive explanation of how to use them, of course.
The other side though is sometimes even more important it's what this thing does as a high-level introduction so you can understand all the things you're supposed to be able to do depending on the software this is some sometimes not obvious and that explanation can be really helpful to understand all the things you're supposed to be able to do and thus plan to use all those features.
nitwit005an hour ago
Half the people here have probably read AWS documentation, and also immediately closed the guided tour on the AWS console.
christophilus10 hours ago
The difference is TFM doesn’t pop up in my face without me asking for it while I’m trying to do something basic.
dnnddidiej6 hours ago
Yeah product tour is like a popup or cookie banner you just wanna close that shit down. It is something that seems like a good idea and maybe even required for polish, like a 3 column pricing page and an oauth login, but think we are better off without it.
Instead add the killer feature: a feature search box ala Google Docs.
ranger2078 hours ago
Yeah, I can read about the parts that I want right now. If I open a video editor to splice two clips together, I don't need to know about input devices. If I want to do that, I can go read the manual for that at that time.
Plus, there's no way I'm going to remember whatever the tour tells me by that time anyway. To actually learn the product you need experience to lock in what the manual says
ninkendo5 hours ago
> That you can read the manual or use the product at your discretion? e.g. `ls` doesn't forcefully open the man page when you run it for the first time?
Correct, yes.
collinmcnulty8 hours ago
It’s the difference between taking a shower and getting caught out in the rain.
snackbroken9 hours ago
The dislike stems from two (and a half) reasons:
1) Push vs pull. As you identified, ls doesn't stop you from doing the thing you wanted to push the man page on you when you don't need/want it. ls just does the thing you ask. man also just does the thing you ask. The product tour is a sign that the developer doesn't understand consent and is trying to get the user to do what the developer wants, not what the user wants.
2) It's infantilizing. The product tour assumes the user doesn't know what they want, and doesn't know how to RTFM to learn how to do the thing they want to do. It treats the user as having no agency.
2.5) It's a tacit admission that TFM sucks and R-ing it isn't a productive use of your time.
tomwheeler5 hours ago
If only there was AFM to read these days.
jappgar10 hours ago
If your product needs a tour your product is badly designed.
Imagine you walked into a convenience store and the owner was like "Hey you need to take the tour first!"
dalmo36 minutes ago
Isn't that exactly what IKEA does?
cowlby9 hours ago
I chuckled cause the convenience/grocery store is laid out to make us find the high margin items and not what we need. They can't explain it to us otherwise we'd shop less.
pedalpete10 hours ago
The best UI is no UI at all.
I can't think of a single time I've looked at a product tour and thought "well, I'm really glad they told me that, I never would have figured that out.
What the product tour I think often misses is that people don't want to learn your entire tool at one time.
They came to do one thing, that one thing needs to be brain dead simple.
Over time, you can show people what else they can do. But a product tour isn't the way to do that.
I think progressive UIs where you expose more and more to the user over time is the way to go.
If you're thinking "but I have so many features and capabilities this person needs" you probably haven't identified what the one thing people are paying you for is.
pier259 hours ago
UI is like a joke. If it needs explaining, it's bad.
themafia4 hours ago
That's why I like startup tips.
"Did you know that in California all gas stations are required to provide you with free air and water for your car?"
amatecha9 hours ago
Any kind of tour/nag tooltip on any app/site I use stays up forever, until they hopefully finally realize I am never going to interact with their cognitive-energy-wasting noise that should never have been shown to begin with. I've had the "try out dark mode" tooltip showing on JIRA for months. Just don't show these. Don't waste people's time. There are sites I close and never come back to because they start with an unskippable tutorial.
Just a couple examples offhand..
Discord (constant tooltips covering the screen to harass me to try "Nitro", or some new AI BS I am never going to even remotely consider trying)
Miro ("Sign in with Google" modal in the top right, "CANVAS 26" conference signup site stripe covering the top of the screen, frequent "What's new" modal covering the entire app, "How likely are you to recommend this product or service to a friend or co-worker?" net promoter score survey covering the bottom of the screen, which makes zero sense whatsoever as an enterprise user)
JIRA ("Try dark theme" tooltip covering the top right of the page)
Figma ("Reconnect with Community" tooltip covering some content on the left)
SoftTalker10 hours ago
My instinctive and immediate response to any popup is to hit "Esc" and if that doesn't make it go away I look for the "X" in the corner and failing that I'll nuke it with browser tools.
Popups are a great way to get your content ignored.
jwilliams10 hours ago
The other huge problem is you never tell the user what they'll get out of the tour. People will invest in a tour if they understand the reward (and "learning" can't be the reward).
kshri2410 hours ago
Instead of product tours I like how AWS has little info/help buttons that are placed right next to every informational/actionable element on their dashboard. Totally unobtrusive. If you want to understand something on the dashboard that is not obvious at first, you can click on the info/help button that opens a side panel with a lot more information about that particular element (and any associated topics). Most of the time, you just know what you are dealing with (or can guess what that particular topic might mean and you will probably be right).
foobar172610 hours ago
Incredible that tooltips were killed because braindead """designers""" couldn't figure out how to make them work on mobile.
They'll be reintroduced under a new name in a decade or two with endless self-congratulation. Same as physical car controls.
Here's a solution off the top of my head: have a dedicate "info" button at the OS level. Holding the button disables normal interaction, highlights all inspectable elements, and allows you to click on each one for a description. Like "inspect element" in the browser.
cholmdomsky7 hours ago
I'm fairly certain that exact thing existed on Windows XP and earlier. It was a question mark in the top right of the window, added a "?" next to your cursor. You could then click elements to see if there happened to be an explanation embedded in the program for that particular button/box/whatever. Didn't always work, but was useful when it was needed.
kshri2410 hours ago
> Here's a solution off the top of my head: have a dedicate "info" button at the OS level. Holding the button disables normal interaction, highlights all inspectable elements, and allows you to click on each one for a description. Like "inspect element" in the browser.
This is a really cool idea. Agreed! Wish something like this actually existed.
kmarc3 hours ago
Wait, isn't that what Windows 3.1/95 did with the "What's this" button?
susam6 hours ago
I very much prefer a well-written product guide compared to a product tour. A guide does not interrupt me when I am trying to get work done. I can read it at a time that is convenient to me. I can bookmark it, revisit it and share it with others as well.
chihuahua9 hours ago
Every time some software tool displays one of those "helpful" messages - "We've reshuffled these features, so now they're hidden over here!" I get angry and dismiss the popups as quickly as possible.
I've got a task to accomplish, I wasn't just sitting around with nothing to do.
Imagine you get in your car to drive to work, and the dashboard displays a pop-up that tries to show you the latest feature. No!
amatecha9 hours ago
Yeah plus 99% of the time those reshuffled features are extraneous shit I never cared about for a millisecond in the first place. "We moved Stickers over here!" ... that's nice, I'm here to make some software and had to open this horrible web app to look at a flow chart someone made.
collabs7 hours ago
I had the great fortune for a major steel company. They had regular "training day"s where basically there is an hour long session where the team showed what new capabilities and fixes the software got and perhaps more importantly collect real user feedback on what they thought.
Too bad I didn't get to work there for long but I loved their stance that everybody should personally make safety the first priority, not just because the company requires you to do so but because your safety really is your priority.
So yes, this was before 2014 but I still think these kind of "training" and feedback should be a two way street, not a series of next I have to press to get the software to shut up.
aeternum7 hours ago
In some countries engineers wear a ring on their pinky to remind them of their obligation to ethics, safety and humility in engineering practice.
In the US engineers don't get that ring and they implement product tours.
7bees6 hours ago
I'm only familiar with 2 countries where this is a thing, and the US is one of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer%27s_Ring
(FWIW, I'm not aware of any country where it's common for software folks to wear one)
profdevloper6 hours ago
Sure it may be the engineers implementing product tours, but I don't think they're the ones pushing for them.
easywood3 hours ago
I would expand this to "why most software notifications get skipped". Because they are in the interest of the vendor and get in my way! The amount of interruptions on a given day, be it in desktop software or saas products, is absolutely ridiculous. "What did you think about this feature ?". "Did you know you can use our AI agent ?".
largbae7 hours ago
Every moment (token?) spent interrupting a user to introduce a feature should instead be spent making the feature more intuitive instead.
voidUpdate2 hours ago
Something similar that annoys me for the same reason is the "there is an update! update now?" popups you get on launch. I want to use the product right now, not wait for it to update before I use it. I wonder if it would be better to get those popups when you try to close the product, it'll say "there's an update available. Do you want to update, or just close right now?". Then it's not getting in your way when you're trying to use it. Or the steam method of just updating things when you're not using them, though that does require a separate launcher program
LunicLynx3 hours ago
I think it can be summarized: Don’t push a map on an explorer, they wanted to explorer, a map is not what they are looking for.
It’s a great article, thanks!
aguacaterojo11 hours ago
The Product Manager needs to justify their job.
robofanatic8 hours ago
A good PM knows rejecting bad ideas is a big part of their job.
exabrial11 hours ago
This isn't that hard. Most of the time, the "changes" are useless UI Slop: "we've moved notifications to this TOTALLY BETTER OTHER SPOT IN THE SCREEN that one of our designers snuck a commit in with and nobody wanted to argue about it, because the last time it just came down to differing opinions. Its not really better but it's different!"
And the other reason is because most users probably have day jobs and need to get something done.
pancomplexop11 hours ago
couldn't agree more - they always pop up at the right time. I don't know why every PM thinks they can save retention by spamming users :(
pants210 hours ago
I've never in my life seen a useful product tour. They're always blatantly obvious like "THIS IS THE SEARCH BAR. USE IT TO FIND CONTENT ACROSS OUR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES."
The best UX is using obvious and standard design, plus a searchable menu / command palette.
c0balt10 hours ago
Ime, the only useful product tours where in games, I. E., tutorials. This usually extends up to in-game hints at certain features like a characters ability. A lot of software can probably pull inspiration from there in regards to including hints with minimal interruption during usage (tooltips that are shown longer the first time you use something etc).
ookblah8 hours ago
i don't think it's an either/or or "best". highly dependent on industry and application. if you're application is complex no amount of "good ux" can replace a good overview/tour (watch people, they will go in click around to get the lay of the land then be confused usually).
after that its determining how people to digest info, some like docs (me), others want to sit thru a video, others NEED a person to guide them in person, some like tooltips, checklists, etc.
i'm not saying you need to litter your app with this stuff, but i don't think there is some magical UX pattern that always works.
YetAnotherNickan hour ago
Instead of spending time making product tour, add a info to each button or show the detail when user hover for 2 seconds. Most product miss that and I don't know what exactly the button does until I click on it. I don't know what "hide" and "past" does in HN even after being here for years.
the_gipsy8 hours ago
I swear, if you haven't opened an app for a week there will be some such popup you have to close.
sevenzeroan hour ago
> Why most product tours get skipped
Because I want you to leave me the fuck alone.
nottorp2 hours ago
The kind of product tour that the article says it works seems very similar to most video game tutorials.
... which incidentally always have a skip button.
stavros6 hours ago
I just created (yesterday) a product tour I'm pretty proud of:
It's a writing reviewer app, and the landing page is the product. It's literally a document with a critique. You can write in it, use the editor, even delete the whole page.
I always skip tours, but I think this kind of thing (if your product can support it) is much better. Then again, this isn't so much a "you've logged in, now let us teach you how to use this product" as a "welcome, here's what this product does".
bitwize38 minutes ago
These tours are like the tutorial bit in a video game where the game wants to show you a new mechanic so it comes to a dead stop, and then your character is whisked off to an alternate dimension consisting of a bare room covered in Holodeck grid lines, completely empty except for a few tomato-can enemies. A dialog pops up explaining the mechanic, optionally with a video demonstrating it, which you must then dismiss; and the game will not continue until you take out the enemies using the technique shown in the dialog.
I HATE that. Let me play with the toolset you give me "in the field". Don't interrupt my fucking game/workflow to show me the feature of the moment YOU want me to use right now. (For applications software in 2026, this is likely to be some stupid AI integration.)
zx80806 hours ago
> If they cannot find it in about thirty seconds, they leave.
Sorry but in many startup cases it's by design. See: got a KPI increase (email is collected), but as the user left there's no AWS resource usage! Profit!
bijowo167610 hours ago
Why most GDPR cookie consents get randomly clicked away
Why most ads on Youtube gets get skipped
etc etc
Razengan9 hours ago
All of the comments & discussions about this kind of stuff makes me wonder if computer keyboards should bring back the "F1: Help" button, for absolute newbies or obtuse software.
but this time, make apps actually respect it :)
Or better: tie it to an OS-level screen-reader AI that explains what's what's on the spot.
AnimalMuppet9 hours ago
For those who think this is something new: TeachEmacsTutorial.
dnnddidiej6 hours ago
Hell yeah, fuck does anyone do those tours? Feels like an emperors new clothes.
mschuster9111 hours ago
GTFO of my face with product tours.
Atlassian is particularly enraging, especially if you're dealing with setting up "new" accounts. I've worked with your shitware for a decade now, I know how it works, DO NOT FORCE ME TO MAKE TEN CLICKS TO GET RID OF A FUCKING INTRO.
Rather, invest your time into a good, logical UI and, most importantly, good AND CURRENT documentation.
pancomplexop11 hours ago
tbh adblockers should just filter these out. I guess the reason they don't is it's "technically" the product ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
cobalt7 hours ago
you can find filter lists that do for some sites
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