cwal3722 minutes ago
> As someone who generally stays out of politics, I didn’t know much about the incoming administration’s stance towards tariffs, though I don’t think anyone could have predicted such drastic hikes.
I have an appreciation for very bright lamps, and the project is neat, but that stuck out to me.
I'm always fascinated by people who both feel comfortable ignoring maybe the single most impactful society-determining apparatus but will also say "no one could have seen that coming", where that is whatever they were unaware of because they chose to check out. I find the stance so fascinating because for myself, it would be impossible to not try and understand why the world is the way it is.
Everything is downstream of politics whether people want to recognize that or not, and choosing to ignore it is, in fact, a political choice.
skybrian13 minutes ago
I'm doubtful that knowing how much politics matters, but only in a vague way, would have been enough to help them. Could someone who was obsessed with following the Trump administration's every move have predicted the tariffs in advance? I don't think financial markets priced them in?
mmh00008 minutes ago
He literally said he was gonna:
"Trump vows massive new tariffs if elected, risking global economic war"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/22/trump-tra...
(https://archive.is/20231125045858/https://www.washingtonpost...)
EDIT - Found this after my post, a MUCH better "he said it":
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-president-tru...
throwup2386 minutes ago
And he did it last time too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_the_first_Trump_adm...
“Living under a rock” is the technical term, I believe.
JKCalhoun2 minutes ago
Yep, he was called "tariff man" (among other things).
cyanydeeza minute ago
Yeah, I find it curiously delusional, but the reality seems to be a segment of the population just refuses to accept the drastic change in pace to political change.
renewiltord8 minutes ago
Realistically, everyone always seems to think everything was predictable but I have maybe a handful of friends who sold the Russell 2000 futures short and then rebounded long who made millions off the various tariff trades. Ironically, Ukrainian and Russian. Ex-HFT but just doing very normal click trading. So I don't get it. Why isn't everyone who can predict the future so accurately a (deca-)millionaire?
mmh000015 minutes ago
This is super interesting, and I'd actually be quite interested in buying a 60K-Lumen lamp... but not at $1200.
Years ago, there was an HN article "You Need More Lumens"[1], which in turn led me down a rabbit hole.
I ended up purchasing:
4 standard table lamps from Target,
28 2000-lumen Cree LEDs bulbs[2] and,
4 7-way splitters[3].
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957614
huydotnet22 minutes ago
> Due to a miscommunication with the factory, the injection pins were moved inside the heatsink fins, causing the cylindrical extrusions below.
What happened after this? the factory have to replace the casting mold at their own expense or you have to pay for it?
stack_framer9 minutes ago
What a great idea; good luck! Also, it's nice to read a hardware story on HN (we need more breaks from AI this and AI that).
waerhert42 minutes ago
Great read, thanks for sharing this. I'm also coming from software and have recently started making some hardware for personal use in my free time. The idea of selling it as an actual product has occurred to me, but the thought of dealing with all the logistics quickly makes me reconsider. Congrats on your launch!
Joel_Mckay24 minutes ago
Once you get your design polished, than consider partnering with a good Contract Manufacturer to do a trial run. Some will handle the ISO, CE, IC, UL and FCC paperwork for you. Make sure your Patents and Trademarks are locked down in both the manufacturing and marketed countries, or some ambitious folks will try to rip you off later. If your projected volumes attract profit sharing offers, than expect 10% to 14% of wholesale cost as a normal ask.
Tooling up a production line for even a toothbrush is well over $1.5m to get the first unit off the line. Building these factories is a different skill set, and everybody is bad it at first.
Note hardware has a 1:6 success rate compared with service companies.
Best of luck, =3
mircerlancerous2 days ago
Well-written and valuable for insight whether you have similar personal experience or not. As someone who does hardware and software as well, I relate to the challenges of making something you can hold; it's very easy to underestimate the challenge difference between the two. Your Murphy's law references are spot on; I feel comforted reading I'm not the only one this happens to! Misery does love company, and it's important to hang on that I think, so that you don't lose hope :)
sberensop2 days ago
Thanks :) It turns out "hardware is hard" isn't an exaggeration!
kingforaday18 minutes ago
Congrats on the first batch shipment! What an accomplishment. As someone who just crossed 10 years as a first time foray into HW, I'd like to tell you it gets easier. It doesn't but keep going anyway! Good luck.
pseudohadamard2 days ago
When I read the "I had no prior experience in hardware; I was counting on being able to pick it up quickly with the help of a couple of mechanical/electrical/firmware engineers" I was ready to curl up into a foetal position... the fact that the author actually got something like this manufactured and shipped is nothing short of miraculous, it's not just a board off JLPCB and a plastic case, this involves custom manufacturing of metal parts and whatnot, and I take my hat off to him for managing it.
This is also why so many crowdfunded projects fail, people go into it with no idea of how hard it is to get something to market and waaaay underestimate the time and cost. Years ago for the first project we did we took an absolute worst-case estimate, then doubled the time and cost on that. We came in on time and under budget, but only just.
sberensopan hour ago
Looking back I agree it was miraculous lol, I don't know if I'd do it again...
JoshTriplett14 minutes ago
I'm curious, what would be the engineering challenges (either hardware or software) in making it dimmable substantially below 2500 lumens, so that it could continue to work as a primary light source when winding down after the sun goes down, rather than switching to other light sources capable of getting dimmer?
dvt36 minutes ago
Miss posts like this on HN, thanks for the great write-up! I tried to launch a hardware thing like 10 years ago[1], but couldn't raise enough money. Fun experience nonetheless.
[1] https://www.pcgamer.com/introducing-gameref-the-anti-cheat-h...
nebezb23 minutes ago
This is a great idea. What was your biggest blocker?
robertvc8 minutes ago
Great post, I really want to see more stuff like this on HN. And congrats on shipping!
0xbadcafebee33 minutes ago
> It was at this point I truly began to appreciate Murphy’s law. In my case, anything not precisely specified and tested would without fail go wrong
After 20 years of system engineering, I just expected this to always be the case. Until my most recent job with a bunch of startups, where people fly by the seat of their pants, there's no communication, documentation, protection or testing, for anything. I am pissed off daily that things don't go wrong, because people now think this is normal, and it goes against everything I've learned from experience. It seems I stumbled onto the corollary of Murphy's Law: when you expect everything to go wrong, nothing does.
OsrsNeedsf2Pan hour ago
Super glad you found (and made!) a product that everyone wants. Hopefully you have brighter nights than this ..
> That was the worst period of my life; I would go to bed literally shaking with stress. In my opinion, Not Cool!
sberensop38 minutes ago
Thanks! The ups and downs of startups are very real (maybe doubly so for hardware)
sberensop2 days ago
Author here, happy to answer any questions about the journey!
dickfickling44 minutes ago
Got a discount code for the HN family? ;-)
Congrats on shipping. I'm living in the EU working California hours (4pm-1am) and will definitely be buying one.
sberensop20 minutes ago
Just made one - use HN100: https://getbrighter.com/discount/HN100 :)
fxtentacle2 days ago
Do you have any recommendations for FCC/CE testing providers?
technothrasher44 minutes ago
I definitely feel your pain. I own a company that makes custom process controls for industrial and commercial clients, and while we work from a large library of hardware and software designs from past jobs, every job has a lot of the same "start from the beginning" feel as what you went through. Especially, the one thing you didn't check is always the thing that is somehow screwed up, and the sleepless nights wondering halfway into the project if you're in deep trouble.
niobe35 minutes ago
Hello, nice write up. I'm curious about your deal with the factory and downstream suppliers.. did all these iterations and fixes cost more every time? Or it was a fixed contract? How does that all work
srtw36 minutes ago
Just curious about the frequency of the diodes and do they pulse simultaneously? Quite often I can perceive flicker in moving objects indoors.
sberensop35 minutes ago
We use constant current reduction dimming so there's zero flicker!
srtw25 minutes ago
That’s great to hear and a big plus, but I’m actually curious about the undimmed full brightness refresh rate of the LEDs.
drum5521 minutes ago
If it’s constant current the “refresh rate” is infinite, or zero depending how you look at it.
srtw11 minutes ago
Didn’t realize how they actually function, looks like I need some new lights.
ishyfishyyan hour ago
What was your marketing strategy once you had the $10 deposit landing page setup?
Neywiny2 days ago
So just to confirm, the actual cause for the controls not working is still unknown to the reader but the reason the measurements didn't make sense was swapped labels?
sberensop2 days ago
The controls weren't working because we had wired them up according to the labels which were wrong (which is also why the measurements didn't make sense to us).
Neywiny2 days ago
Ah. A lesson from somebody who's built hardware that I'm sure you've now learned: make sure connectors can't plug into eachother unless they're supposed to. Even if they're different connectors, different keying, whatever, sometimes they can still be forced together.
abdullahkhalidsan hour ago
I built a lot of Ikea last month. And I was just marveling how cleverly designed everything was so that it was quite difficult to put two wrong pieces together. Mostly, the only warnings in the manuals were to rotate a piece correctly.
sowbug28 minutes ago
This is good advice for robust design, but I swear, 9 times out of 10, you will be the one who keys it the wrong way during CAD layout.
atif0892 days ago
For someone who has no idea about light engineering or electronics if I stack two 25k Lm lamps next to each other does it make 50k Lm light?
I recently changed my car's headlamps to Chinese LED which claims to be about 37kLm and I don't know how much it is probably less than that.
Two of those lamps costee me around $24 on Amazon US (pretty sure under $10 in China).
What makes this $800+ ?
ploxiln9 minutes ago
In addition to the all the other stuff, including light spectrum differences, you can't just trust that a "37000 lumen" light (cheap from China ...) is such a thing. Some examples of "100,000 lumen" flashlights that ended providing more like 2000 to 3000 lumens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q_0wxzClkg
It's possible, they exist, many such LEDs are probably manufactured in China ... but the legit ones are probably more expensive, and you may need a more recognizable brand to do some QA, and keep pressure on the factory to not slip quality or inputs.
Consider the cheap screwdriver included with the lamp in this story: unexpectedly, many were more faulty than the cheapest $4 screwdriver you'd find in any hardware store. The more stories you read about manufacturing stuff in China, the more you'll see very strange things. It's not about nationality or anything, it's an extreme kind of optimization. If you didn't catch it already, maybe you didn't really need what you thought you asked for ... they're just checking/optimizing
mint52 days ago
Please don’t put in extra bright headlights on cars. Stock LED headlights being to bright for other drivers is already a massively common complaint — and then we have people installing even brighter ones? Please don’t.
kevin_thibedeau5 minutes ago
It is also illegal to use non-DOT approved lighting in the US. Was behind a jackass today with a receiver mounted accessory red light that was excessively bright and made it look like the brakes were applied.
fxtentacle2 days ago
For colours to look natural you need your white light to contain lots of different wave lengths. It’s usually measured as Ra. Artificially looking LEDs are easily 10x cheaper than photography grade LEDs. Also, this guy is probably paying taxes and handling stuff the proper legal way. If you order from Alibaba, chances are you’ll not be paying taxes. Plus if they offer a 5 year warranty, they probably need to keep some money around for repairs.
alright256533 minutes ago
> claims
That's all there is to it. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CJqAJ2LXw8&t=852.
sberensop2 days ago
Yep lumens are additive (though your eyes perceive them logarithmically).
I don't know much about car headlights, but chatgpt says high beams are typically 25-45 watts, and assuming a generous 200lm/w that gives you 5000-9000 lm.
Roughly speaking, it's expensive because it's 50 lbs & tons of electrical components (that are much higher quality than $24 headlights).
atif0892 days ago
Just to add context those are just dumb lamps and I acknowledge that the product here has a lot more features including IoT support and the ability to change Hue.
Is it the ability to change Hue that makes this expensive?
sberensop2 days ago
The main cost driver is the sheer size/weight/power. Dimmability, adjustable CCT, and smart home controls do add a decent chunk though.
nicoburnsan hour ago
Oh boy, I want one of these. This would absolutely perfect for winter depression (I suspect much better than the "SAD lamps" marketed for this purpose which are bright not even close to this bright). But £889 is a lot of money for a lamp!
riotnrrd30 minutes ago
If you're not afraid of DIY and it looking (much) uglier than these lamps, you can buy extremely bright "cob lights" and make something yourself: https://meaningness.com/sad-light-lumens
egypturnash44 minutes ago
Find a garden shop, a 2' square full-spectrum light from "The Indoor Sun Shop" was very important to my mental health when I lived in Seattle and cost a lot less than this. Especially after I added a mechanical timer so I could never be too depressed to turn it on in the morning.
lastdong26 minutes ago
Congratulations on the successful launch and excellent write-up. Hardware is fun but also much more challenging.
ArcaneMoose32 minutes ago
Great write-up! Thanks for sharing your journey
johng22 minutes ago
What a great article. It's amazing to see how many simple things can go wrong, and I'm sure there could have been more. Great work keeping your tenacity up and sticking through it.
dmwood2 days ago
Just a few slots down in my YC feed: the benefits of bright light
fix4funan hour ago
50k lm is quite high. What electric power consumption does it have ? I estimate around 500 Watt, am I right ?
thomascountzan hour ago
sberensopan hour ago
It's 60k lumens now, and it draws 580W off the wall
michaelt2 minutes ago
Am I right in thinking you're dissipating that 580W using passive cooling only?
Impressive if so - every time I've designed something approaching that power level I've ended up needing forced air cooling.
christkvan hour ago
Whats the expected life for the leds at that power draw level?
sberensop27 minutes ago
LEDs are pretty insane these days - the ones we use have an L90 (time until they hit 90% brightness) of >50,000 hours (17 years if you use it every day 8 hours a day).
ceroxylonan hour ago
Good estimate, the official website for the lamp says 580W
atentatenan hour ago
Very interesting. I would like something like this, but not with LEDs.
conormccarteran hour ago
Hydrargyrum medium-src iodide lamps are an alternative (artificial sun lights for movie sets), but you'll want a good AC unit in your office
kensan hour ago
I thought hydragyrum was a made-up word, but it's the Latin word for mercury, which explains the Hg chemical symbol. (Just in case anyone finds this interesting.)
MostlyStablean hour ago
Very curious why you want to avoid LEDs
piskov17 minutes ago
No infrared spectrum
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