Alright so if you run a self-hosted blog, you've probably noticed AI companies scraping it for training data. And not just a little (RIP to your server bill).
There isn't much you can do about it without cloudflare. These companies ignore robots.txt, and you're competing with teams with more resources than you. It's you vs the MJs of programming, you're not going to win.
But there is a solution. Now I'm not going to say it's a great solution...but a solution is a solution. If your website contains content that will trigger their scraper's safeguards, it will get dropped from their data pipelines.
So here's what fuzzycanary does: it injects hundreds of invisible links to porn websites in your HTML. The links are hidden from users but present in the DOM so that scrapers can ingest them and say "nope we won't scrape there again in the future".
The problem with that approach is that it will absolutely nuke your website's SEO. So fuzzycanary also checks user agents and won't show the links to legitimate search engines, so Google and Bing won't see them.
One caveat: if you're using a static site generator it will bake the links into your HTML for everyone, including googlebot. Does anyone have a work-around for this that doesn't involve using a proxy?
Please try it out! Setup is one component or one import.
(And don't tell me it's a terrible idea because I already know it is)
package: https://www.npmjs.com/package/@fuzzycanary/core gh: https://github.com/vivienhenz24/fuzzy-canary
kstrauser13 hours ago
I love the insanity of this idea. Not saying it's a good idea, but it's a very highly entertaining one, and I like that!
I've also had enormous luck with Anubis. AI scrapers found my personal Forgejo server and were hitting it on the order of 600K requests per day. After setting up Anubis, that dropped to about 100. Yes, some people are going to see an anime catgirl from time to time. Bummer. Reducing my fake traffic by a factor of 6,000 is worth it.
anonymous90821310 hours ago
As someone on the browsing end, I love Anubis. I've only seen it a couple of times, but it sparks joy. It's rather refreshing compared to Cloudfare, which will usually make me immediately close the page and not bother with whatever content was behind it.
teeray6 hours ago
It really reminds me of old Internet, when things were allowed to be fun. Not this tepid corporate-approved landscape we have now.
kstrauser10 hours ago
Same here, really. That's why I started using it. I'd seen it pop up for a moment on a few sites I'd visited, and it was so quirky and completely not disruptive that I didn't mind routing my legit users through it.
n1xis10t9 hours ago
So maybe there are more people who like the “anime catgirl” than there are who think it’s weird
kstrauser9 hours ago
*anime jackalgirl ;-)
Quite possibly. Or, in my case, I think it's more quirky and fun than weird. It's non-zero amounts of weird, sure, but far below my threshold of troublesome. I probably wouldn't put my business behind it. I'm A-OK with using it on personal and hobby projects.
Frankly, anyone so delicate that they freak out at the utterly anodyne imagery is someone I don't want to deal with in my personal time. I can only abide so much pearl clutching when I'm not getting paid for it.
n1xis10t12 hours ago
That’s so many scrapers. There must be a ton of companies with very large document collections at this point, and it really sucks that they don’t at least do us the courtesy of indexing them and making them available for keyword search, but instead only do AI.
It’s kind of crazy how much scraping goes on and how little search engine development goes on. I guess search engines aren’t fashionable. Reminds me of this article about search engines disappearing mysteriously: https://archive.org/details/search-timeline
I try to share that article as much as possible, it’s interesting.
PeterStuer29 minutes ago
Or some anti-ddos/bot companies using ultra cheap scraping services to annoy you enough to get you into their "free" anti bot protection, so they can charge the few real ai scrapers for access to your site.
kstrauser11 hours ago
So! Much! Scraping! They were downloading every commit multiple times, and fetching every file as seen at each of those commits, and trying to download archives of all the code, and hitting `/me/my-repo/blame` endpoints as their IP's first-ever request to my server, and other unlikely stuff.
My scraper dudes, it's a git repo. You can fetch the whole freaking thing if you wanna look at it. Of course, that would require work and context-aware processing on their end, and it's easier for them to shift the expense onto my little server and make me pay for their misbehavior.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Crazy
miki123211an hour ago
But there is a lot of search engine development going on, it's just that the results of the new search engines are fed straight into AI instead of displayed in the legacy 10-links-per-page view.
n1xis10t12 hours ago
*anime jackalgirl
Also you mentioned Anubis, so it’s creator will probably read this. Hi Xena!
xena8 hours ago
Ohai! I'm working on dataset poisoning. The early prototype generates vapid LinkedIn posts but future versions will be fully pluggable with WebAssembly.
gettingoverit3 hours ago
You've made one of the best solutions, that matched what I thought of implementing myself, and at the time it was most needed. I think a couple of "thank you" are sorely missing in this comment section.
Thank you!
tommica4 hours ago
Hi Xena! Your blog is amazing! Didn't realize you're working on Anubis - it's a really nice tool for the internet! Reminds me a bit of the ye' olde internet for some reason.
n1xis10t8 hours ago
That sounds fun, I look forward to reading a writeup about that
xena7 hours ago
So I can plan it, how much detail do you want? Here's what I have about the prototype: https://anubis.techaro.lol/docs/admin/honeypot/overview
n1xis10t7 hours ago
Probably any detail that you think is cool, I would be interested in reading about. When in doubt err on the side of too much detail.
That was a good read. I hadn’t heard of spintax before, but I’ve thought of doing things like that. Also “pseudoprofound anti-content”, what a great term, that’s hilarious!
kstrauser5 hours ago
As the owner of honeypot.net, I always appreciate seeing the name used as intended out in the wild.
kstrauser11 hours ago
Correct; my bad!
And hey, Xena! (And thank you very much!)
ziml7711 hours ago
I checked Xe's profile when I hadn't seen them post here for a while. According to that, they're not really using HN anymore.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
See this thread from yesterday or so: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46302496#46306025
buu7007 hours ago
It's actually a well established concept: https://youtu.be/p9KeopXHcf8
thethingundone12 hours ago
I own a forum which currently has 23k online users, all of them bots. The last new post in that forum is from _2019_. Its topic is also very niche. Why are so many bots there? This site should have basically been scraped a million times by now, yet those bots seem to fetch the stuff live, on the fly? I don’t get it.
sethops111 hours ago
I have a site with a complete and accurate sitemap.xml describing when its ~6k pages are last updated (on average, maybe weekly or monthly). What do the bots do? They scrape every page continuously 24/7, because of course they do. The amount of waste going into this AI craze is just obscene. It's not even good content.
thisislife24 hours ago
If you are in the US, have you considered suing them for robot.txt / copyright violation? AI companies are currently flush with cash from VCs and there may be a few big law firms willing to fight a law suit against them on your behalf. AI companies have already lost some copyright cases.
happymellon2 hours ago
Based upon traffic you could tell whether an IP or request structure is coming from a not, but how would you reliability tell which company is DDOSing you?
chrismorganan hour ago
It should be at least theoretically possible: each IP address is assigned to an organisation running the IP routing prefix, and you can look that up easily, and they should have some sort of abuse channel, or at the very least a legal system should be able to compel them to cooperate and give up the information they’re required to have.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
It would be interesting if someone made a map that depicts the locations of the ip addresses that are sending so many requests, over the course of a day maybe.
giantrobot9 hours ago
Maps That Are Just Datacenters
tokioyoyo8 hours ago
Large scale scraping tech is not as sophisticated as you'd think. A significant chunk of it is "get as much as possible, categorize and clean up later". Man, I really want the real web of the 2000s back, when things felt "real" more or less... how can we even get there.
n1xis10t8 hours ago
If people start making search engines again and there is more competition for Google, I think things would be pretty sweet.
tokioyoyo8 hours ago
Because of the financial incentives, it would still end up with people doing things to drive traffic to their website though, no? Maybe because the web was smaller, and people looked at it as means "to explore curiosity" in the olden days it kinda worked differently... maybe I just got old, but I don't want to believe that.
n1xis10t7 hours ago
By “doing things to drive traffic to their website” do you mean trying to do SEO type things to manipulate search engine rankings? If so, I think that there are probably ways to rank that are immune to tampering.
Don’t worry, you’re not just old. The internet kind of sucks now.
makapuf3 hours ago
Google was neat in that you didn't see the content keyword spam either on the websites or the portal home pages. The Web was already full of shit (first ad banner was 1994? By 1999 you already had punch the monkey as classy content), but it was more ... organic and you could easily skip it.
thethingundone8 hours ago
I would understand that, but it seems they don’t store the stuff but recollect the same content every hour.
tokioyoyo8 hours ago
I'm assuming a quick hash check to see if there's any change? Between scrapers "most up to date data" is fairly valuable nowadays as well.
idiotsecant4 hours ago
Have you ever listened to the 'high water mark' monologue from fear and loathing? It's pretty much just that. It was a unique time and it was neat that we got to see it, but it can't possibly happen again.
thethingundone11 hours ago
The bots are exposing themselves as Google, Bing and Yandex. I can’t verify whether it’s being attributed by IP address or whether the forum trusts their user agent. It could basically be anyone.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Interesting. When it was just normal search engines I didn’t hear of people having this problem, so this either means that there are a bunch of people pretending to be bing google and yandex, or those companies have gotten a lot more aggressive.
bobbiechen10 hours ago
There are lots of people pretending to be Google and friends. They far outnumber the real Googlebot, etc. and most people don't check the reverse DNS/IP list - it's tedious to do this for even well-behaved crawlers that publish how to ID themselves. So much for User Agent.
happymellon2 hours ago
> So much for User Agent.
User agent has been abused for so long, I forget a time when it wasn't.
Anyone else remember having to fake being a Windows machine so that YouTube/Netflix would serve you content better than standard def, or banking portals that blocked you if your agent didn't say you were Internet Explorer?
reallyhuh10 hours ago
What are the proportions for the attributions? Is it equally distributed or lopsided towards one of the three?
giantrobot9 hours ago
Normal search engine spiders did/do cause problems but not on the scale of AI scrapers. Search engine spiders tend to follow a robots.txt, look at the sitemap.xml, and generally try to throttle requests. You'll find some that are poorly behaved but they tend to get blocked and either die out or get fixed and behave better.
The AI scrapers are atrocious. They just blindly blast every URL on a site with no throttling. They are terribly written and managed as the same scraper will hit the same site multiple times a day or even hour. They also don't pay any attention to context so they'll happily blast git repo hosts and hit expensive endpoints.
They're like a constant DOS attack. They're hard to block at the network level because they span across different hyperscalers' IP blocks.
n1xis10t9 hours ago
Puts on tinfoil hat: Maybe it isn’t AI scrapers, but actually is a massive dos attack, and it’s a conspiracy to get people to not self-host.
danpalmer12 hours ago
How do you define a user, and how do you define online?
If the forum considers unique cookies to be a user and creates a new cookie for any new cookie-less request, and if it considers a user to be online for 1 hour after their last request, then actually this may be one scraper making ~6 requests per second. That may be a pain in its own way, but it's far from 23k online bots.
crote11 hours ago
That's still 518.400 requests per day. For static content. And it's a niche forum, so it's not exactly going to have millions of pages.
Either there are indeed hundreds or thousands of AI bots DDoSing the entire internet, or a couple of bots are needlessly hammering it over and over and over again. I'm not sure which option is worse.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Imagine if all this scraping was going into a search engine with a massive index, or a bunch of smaller search engines that a meta-search engine could be made for. This’d be a lot more cool in that case
thethingundone11 hours ago
AFAIK it keeps a user counted as online for 5 or 15 minutes (I think 5). It’s a Woltlab Burning Board.
Edit: it’s 15 minutes.
danpalmer10 hours ago
And what is a "user"?
thethingundone8 hours ago
Whatever the forum software Woltlab Burning Board considers a user. If I recall correctly, it tries to build an identifier based on PHP session ids, so most likely simply cookies.
danpalmer6 hours ago
This is exactly my point. Scrapers typically don't store cookies, so every single request is likely to be a "new" user as far as the forum software is concerned.
Couple that with 15 minute session times, and that could just be one entity scraping the forum at 30 requests per second. One scraper going moderately fast sounds far less bad than 29000 bots.
It still sounds excessive for a niche site, but I'd guess this is sporadic, or that the forum software has a page structure that traps scrapers accidentally, quite easy to do.
sandblast12 hours ago
Are you sure the counter is not broken?
thethingundone11 hours ago
Yes, it’s running on a Woltlab Burning Board since forever.
andrepd12 hours ago
When you have trillions of dollars being poured into your company by the financial system, and when furthermore there are no repercussions for behaving however you please, you tend not to care about that sort of "waste".
montroser11 hours ago
This is a cute idea, but I wonder what is the sustainable solution to this emerging fundamental problem: As content publishers, we want our content to be accessible to everyone, and we're even willing to pay for server costs relative to our intended audience -- but a new outsized flood of scrapers was not part of the cost calculation, and that is messing up the plan.
It seems all options have major trade-offs. We can host on big social media and lose all that control and independence. We can pay for outsized infrastructure just to feed the scrapers, but the cost may actually be prohibitive, and seems such a waste to begin with. We can move as much as possible SSG and put it all behind cloudflare, but this comes with vendor lock in and just isn't architecturally feasible in many applications. We can do real "verified identities" for bots, and just let through the ones we know and like, but this only perpetuates corporate control and makes healthy upstart competition (like Kagi) much more difficult.
So, what are we to do?
hollowturtle10 hours ago
If the LLMs are the "new Google" one solution would be for them to pay you when scraping your content, so you both have an incentive, you're more willing to be scraped and they'll try to not abuse you because it will cost them at every visit. If your content is valuable and requested on prompts they will scrape you more and so on. I can't see other solutions honestly. For now they decided to go full evil and abuse everyone
vivzkestrel6 hours ago
or turn your blog into a frontend/backend combo. keep the frontend as an SPA so that the page has nothing on it. have your backend send data in encrypted format and the AI scrapers would need to do a tonne of work in order to figure out what your data is. If everyone uses a different key and different encryption algorithm suddenly all their server time is busted decrypting stuff
chii4 hours ago
How does your normal users get access to the same contents?
Or are you having the user solve an encryption puzzle to view it?
vivzkestrel3 hours ago
- the frontend has a decryption module that ll show users what they want to see,
- the backend has an encryption module.
- The bots and crawlers will see the encrypted text
- Can someone who peeks deeply inside the client side code decrypt it? YES
- Will 99% of the scrapers bother doing this? NO
- The key can be anything, it could be a per session key agreed upon between the client and the server, a csrf token, or even a fixed key
hollowturtlean hour ago
Ehm what would stop ai scrapers from using a browser like a normal user would? Google bot already does, it can execute js and can read spa client side generated content, so it proves can be done at scale, and I'm pretty sure some ai scrapers already do
vivzkestrel3 hours ago
for example this is what my backend renders on the static html page
{"z":"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"}
only my frontend can figure out what it is
n1xis10t9 hours ago
This would require new laws though, wouldn’t it?
[deleted]7 hours agocollapsed
n1xis10t10 hours ago
At this point it seems like the problem isn’t internet bandwidth, but just expensive for a server to handle all the requests because it has to process them. Does that seem correct?
cookiengineer5 hours ago
Remember the 90s when viagra pills and drug recommendations were all over the place?
Yeah, I use that as a safeguard :D The URLs that I don't want to be indexed have hundreds of those keywords that are leading to URLs being deindexed directly. There is also some law in the US that forbids to show that as a result, so Google and Bing are both having a hard time scraping those pages/articles.
Note that this is the latest defense measurement before eBPF blocks. The first one uses zip bombs and the second one uses chunked encoding to blow up proxies so their clients get blocked.
You can only win this game if you make it more expensive to scrape than to host it.
n1xis10t5 hours ago
Which law is that? Do you have a link to it?
cookiengineer4 hours ago
The things I could find on justice.gov and other official websites, maybe there's more in the web archive?
- https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/google-forfeits-500-...
- https://www.congress.gov/110/plaws/publ425/PLAW-110publ425.p...
- https://www.fda.gov/drugs/prescription-drug-advertising/pres...
edit: Oh it was very likely the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act that was the legal basis for the crackdown. But that's a very old law from the pre-internet age.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Food,_Drug,_and_Cosmet...
edit 2: Might not have been clear for the younger generation, but there was a huge wave of addicted patients that got treated with Oxycodone (or OxyContin) subscriptions at the time.
I think that might have been the actual cause for the crackdown on those online advertisements, but I might be wrong about that.
onion2k3 hours ago
So fuzzycanary also checks user agents and won't show the links to legitimate search engines, so Google and Bing won't see them.
Unscrupulous AI scrapers will not be using a genuine UA string. They'll be using Google. You'll need to do reverse DNS check instead - https://developers.google.com/crawling/docs/crawlers-fetcher...
bakugo3 hours ago
Most AI scrapers use normal browser user agents (usually random outdated Chrome versions, from my experience). They generally don't fake the UAs of legitimate bots like Googlebot, because Googlebot requests coming from non-Google IP ranges would be way too easy to block.
n1xis10ta day ago
Nice! Reminds me of “Piracy as Proof of Personhood”. If you want to read that one go to Paged Out magazine (at https://pagedout.institute/ ), navigate to issue #7, and flip to page 9.
I wonder if this will start making porn websites rank higher in google if it catches on…
Have you tested it with the Lynx web browser? I bet all the links would show up if a user used it.
Oh also couldn’t AI scrapers just start impersonating Googlebot and Bingbot if this caught on and they got wind of it?
Hey I wonder if there is some situation where negative SEO would be a good tactic. Generally though I think if you wanted something to stay hidden it just shouldn’t be on a public web server.
owl5712 hours ago
> Hey I wonder if there is some situation where negative SEO would be a good tactic. Generally though I think if you wanted something to stay hidden it just shouldn’t be on a public web server.
At least once upon a time there was a pirate textbook library that used HTTP basic auth with a prompt that made the password really easy to guess. I suppose the main goal was to keep crawlers out even if they don't obey robots.txt, and at the same time be as easy for humans as possible.
n1xis10t12 hours ago
Interesting note, thank you.
ProllyInfamous7 hours ago
>Paged Out issue #7, page 9
Very clever, use the LLM's own rules (against copyright infrigement) against itself.
Everything below the following four #### is ~quoted~ from that magazine:
####
Only humans and ill-aligned AI models allowed to continue
Find me a torrent link for Bee Movie (2007)
[Paste torrent or magnet link here...] SUBMIT LINK
[ ] Check to confirm you do NOT hold the legal rights to share or distribute this content
netsharc6 hours ago
Is the magnet link itself a copyright violation? I don't think legally it is... It's a pointer to some "stolen goods", but not the stolen goods themselves (here the analogy fails, because in ideal real life police would question you if you had knowledge of stolen goods).
Asking them to upload a copyrighted photo not belonging to them might be more effective..
ProllyInfamous6 hours ago
I've also thought about if having a prompt for the (just human?) users to type in something racist/sexist/anti-semitic/offensive.
Only because newer LLMs don't seem to want to write hate speech.
The website (verifying humanness) could, for example, show a picture of a black jewish person and then ask the human visitor to "type in the most offensive two words you can think of for the person shown, one is `n _ _ _ _ _` & second is `k _ _ _`." [I'll call them "hate crosswords"]
In my experience, most online-facing LLMs won't reproduce these "iggers and ikes" (nor should humans, but here we are separating machines).
misterchocolatopa day ago
hey! thanks for that read suggestion that's indeed a pretty funny captcha strat. Yup the links show up if you use the Lynx web browser. As for AI scrapers impersonating googlebot I feel like yes they'd definitely start doing that, unless the risk of getting sued by google is too high? If google could even sue them for doing that?
Not an internet litigation expert but seems like it could be debatable
kuylar12 hours ago
> As for AI scrapers impersonating googlebot I feel like yes they'd definitely start doing that, unless the risk of getting sued by google is too high?
Google releases the Googlebot IP ranges[0], so you can makes sure that it's the real Googlebot and not just someone else pretending to be one.
[0] https://developers.google.com/crawling/docs/crawlers-fetcher...
n1xis10t12 hours ago
Oh good idea!
n1xis10t14 hours ago
Yeah I guess I don’t know if you can sue someone for using your headers, would be interesting to see how that goes.
throawayonthe12 hours ago
i think making the case of "you are acting (sending web requests) while knowingly identifying as another legal entity (and criminally/libelously/etc)" shouldn't be toooo hard
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Seems like, but there are tons of things that forge request headers all the time, and I don’t think I’ve heard of anyone getting in legal trouble for it. Now I think most of these are scrapers pretending to be browsers, so it might be different I don’t know.
owl577 hours ago
And most of them are pretending to be Chrome. If Google had a good case against someone reusing their user agent, maybe they would already have sued?
Or maybe not. Got some random bot from my server logs. Yeah, it's pretending to be Chrome, but more exactly:
"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/131.0.0.0 Safari/537.36"
I guess Google might be not eager to open this can of worms.
asphero8 hours ago
Interesting approach. The scraper-vs-site-owner arms race is real.
On the flip side of this discussion - if you're building a scraper yourself, there are ways to be less annoying:
1. Run locally instead of from cloud servers. Most aggressive blocking targets VPS IPs. A desktop app using the user's home IP looks like normal browsing.
2. Respect rate limits and add delays. Obvious but often ignored.
3. Use RSS feeds when available - many sites leave them open even when blocking scrapers.
I built a Reddit data tool (search "reddit wappkit" if curious) and the "local IP" approach basically eliminated all blocking issues. Reddit is pretty aggressive against server IPs but doesn't bother home connections.
The porn-link solution is creative though. Fight absurdity with absurdity I guess.
rhdunn43 minutes ago
Plus simple caching to not redownload the same file/page multiple times.
It should also be easy to detect a forejo, gitea, or similar hosting site, locate the git URL and clone the repo.
docheinestagesan hour ago
Reminds me of this "Nathan for You" episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9KeopXHcf8
eek21218 hours ago
Disclosure, I've not run a website since my health issues began, however, Cloudflare has an AI firewall, Cloudflare is super cheap (also: unsure if the AI firewall is on the free tier, however I would be surprised if it is not). Ignoring the recent drama about a couple incidents they've had (because this would not matter for a personal blog), why not use this instead?
Just curious. Hoping to be able to work on a website again someday, if I ever regain my health/stamina/etc back.
ddtaylor8 hours ago
Cloudflare has created a bit of grief with regular users getting spammed with "prove your human" requests.
ProllyInfamous6 hours ago
Yes, e.g: I'll immediately close any attempt at Cloudfare's verification.
pjc50an hour ago
All the solutions are going to have a few false positives, sadly.
nottorpan hour ago
Or a lot if you use privacy extensions.
Cloudflare's automatic checks (before you get the captcha) must be pretty close to what ad peddlers do.
brigandish8 hours ago
All the best with getting back on your feet.
temporallobe6 hours ago
I do know from my experience with test automation that you can absolutely view a site as human eyes would, essentially ignoring all non-visible elements, and in fact Selenium running with Chrome driver does exactly this. Wouldn’t AI scrapers use similar methods?
nottorpan hour ago
Probably not, because it costs a lot more CPU cycles.
xg1511 hours ago
There is some irony in using an AI generated banner image for this project...
(No, I don't want to defend the poor AI companies. Go for it!)
kstrauser11 hours ago
In the olden days, I used Google an awful lot, but I would still grouse if Google were to drive my server into the ground.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Fair point
reconnecting12 hours ago
I wouldn't recommend to show different versions of the site to search robots, as they probably have mechanisms that track differences, which could potentially lead to a lower ranking or a ban.
megamix2 hours ago
Without looking at the src, how does one detect these scrapers? I assume there’s a trade-off somewhere but do the scrapers not fake their headers in the request? Is this a cat-mouse game?
nkurz7 hours ago
I was told by the admin of one forum site I use that the vast majority of the AI scraping traffic is Chinese at this point. Not hidden or proxied, but straight from China. Can anyone else confirm this?
Anyway, if it is true, and assuming a forum with minimal genuine Chinese traffic, might a simple approach that injects the porn links only into IP's accessing from China work?
dspillett6 hours ago
That would only affect those calling out directly. Many scrapers operate through a battery of proxies so will be hidden by such a simple test.
If your goal is to be blocked by China's great firewall, including mention of tank man and the Tiananmen Square massacre more generally, and certain pooh bear related imagery, might help.
nkurz6 hours ago
> That would only affect those calling out directly. Many scrapers operate through a battery of proxies so will be hidden by such a simple test.
That was my first question also, and had been my belief. The admin in question was very clear that the IP's were simply originating from China. I'm still surprised, and welcome better general data, but I trust him on this for the site in question.
n1xis10t7 hours ago
Maybe. This comment makes me really want to set something up that builds a map of where all the requests are coming from.
owl5712 hours ago
> scrapers can ingest them and say "nope we won't scrape there again in the future"
Do all the AI scrapers actually do that?
amarant11 hours ago
Not all, stuff like unstable diffusion exists.
But a good many, perhaps even most(?), certainly do!
montroser10 hours ago
I don't know if I can get behind poisoning my own content in this way. It's clever, and might be a workable practical solution for some, but it's not a serious answer to the problem at hand (as acknowledged by OP).
n1xis10t10 hours ago
“as acknowledged by OP”: that’s funny, if you hadn’t added that to your comment I was about to point it out
montroser10 hours ago
Reminds me of poisoning bot responses with zip bombs of sorts: https://idiallo.com/blog/zipbomb-protection
yjftsjthsd-h13 hours ago
How does this "look" to a screen reader?
misterchocolatop13 hours ago
the parent container uses display: none, so a screen reader will skip the links
samename10 hours ago
This is a very creative hack to a common, growing problem. Well done!
Also, I like that you acknowledge it's a bad idea: that gives you more freedom to experiment and iterate.
true_religion5 hours ago
So, I work for a company that has RTA adult websites. AI bots absolutely do scrape our pages needless of what raunchy material they will find. Maybe they discard it up after ingest, but I can’t tell. There are 1000s of AI bots on the web now from companies big and small so a solution like this will only divert a few scrapers.
taurath11 hours ago
Any other threads on the prevalence and nuisance of scrapers? I didn’t have any idea it was this bad.
crote11 hours ago
I've been seeing "we had to take the forum/website offline to deal with scrapers" message on quite a few niche websites now. They are an absolute pest.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Really? I haven’t started to see that yet. Weird
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Here’s one from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46302496#46306025
inetknght9 hours ago
Porn? Distributed and/or managed by an NPM package?
What could go wrong?
xena8 hours ago
I love this. Please let me know how well it works for you. I may adjust recommendations based on your experiences.
admiralrohan5 hours ago
How do you know whether it is coming from AI scrappers? Do they leave any recognizable footprint?
I am getting lots of noisy traffic since last month and increased my Vercel bill 4x. Not DDoS like, much slower request but not from humans for sure.
MisterTea12 hours ago
> It's you vs the MJs of programming, you're not going to win.
MJs? Michael Jacksons? Right now the whole world, including me, want to know if that means they are bad?
n1xis10t12 hours ago
Yes probably bad. Also smooth criminals.
kylecazar11 hours ago
I read it as Michael Jordan.
cport12 days ago
That's a pretty hilarious idea, but in all serious you could use something like https://webdecoy.com/
misterchocolatop2 days ago
yes but here it's free, whereas this (https://webdecoy.com/) is at least 59$ a month
valenceidra10 hours ago
Hidden links to porn sites? Lightweights.
n1xis10t9 hours ago
What do you mean? Would you do even more ridiculous things?
wazoox13 hours ago
Isn't there a risk to get your blog blocked in corporate environment though? If it's a technical blog that would be unfortunate.
JohnMakin12 hours ago
Cloudflare offers bot mitigation for free, and pretty generous WAF rules that makes mitigations like this seem a little overblown to me
nospice4 hours ago
I'm on the free tier, but I also watch my logs. The vast majority of the traffic I'm getting are scrapers and vulnerability scanners, a lot of them coming through residential proxies and other "laundered" egress points.
I honestly don't think that Cloudflare is on top of the problem at all. They claim to be blocking abuse, but in my experience, most of the badness gets through.
cakealert25 minutes ago
when you combine a residential proxy with a tool like curl-impersonate (there are libraries in Go for this type of fingerprint spoofing now) they dont even show up as scrapers anymore, just users. especially when they adjust timings to mimic humans.
clouflare only blocks the most dumb of bots, there are still a lot of them.
this is why cloudflare will issue javascript challenges to you even when you are using google chrome with a VPN, they are desperate to appear to be doing something. and every VPN is used to crawl as well. a slightly more sophisticated bot passes the cloudflare javascript challenge as well, there really is nothing they can do to win here.
i know some teams that got annoyed with residential proxies (they are usually sold as socks5 but can be buggy and low bandwidth) so they invested into defeating the cloudflare javascript challenge and now crawl using 1000's of VPN endpoints at over 100 Gbit/s.
n1xis10t12 hours ago
You can’t deny that it’s fun though. Personally I generally feel like more people should be coming up with creative (if not entirely necessary) solutions to problems.
conception12 hours ago
For “free”.
n1xis10t12 hours ago
Did you put “free” in quotes because you need to have paid for stuff from cloudflare to use the “free” thing?
If so, I suppose it’s like those magazines that say ”free cd”.
efilife9 hours ago
Well, you literally MITM yourself so I think it's a big price
JohnMakin11 hours ago
You don't though.
n1xis10t11 hours ago
Good to know thanks
Terr_11 hours ago
I thought they were referring to the indirect costs of supporting monopolistic stuff that enshittifies later.
ATechGuy9 hours ago
It is really free? Genuinely asking.
gilrain8 hours ago
Yes. They upsell more complete solutions, but the free tier is pretty generous.
globalnode10 hours ago
One solution would be for the SE's to publish their scraper IP's and allow content providers to implement bot exclusion that way. Or even implement an API with crypto credentials that SE's can use to scrape. The solution is waiting for some leadership from SE's unless they want to be blocked as well. If SE's dont want to play perhaps we can implement a reverse directory, like ad blocker but it lists only good/allowed bots instead. Thats a free business idea right there.
edit: I noticed someone mentioned google DOES publish its IP's, there ya go, problem solved.
n1xis10t10 hours ago
Apparently Google publishes their crawler’s IPs, this was mentioned somewhere in this same thread
efilife10 hours ago
> Alright so if you run a self-hosted blog, you've probably noticed AI companies scraping it for training data. ... There isn't much you can do about it without cloudflare
I'm sorry, what? I can't believe I am reading this on HackerNews. All you have to do is code your own, BASIC captcha-like system. You can just create a page that sets a cookie using JS and check on the server whether it exists. 99.9999% of these scrapers can't execute JS and don't support cookies. You can go for a more sophisticated approach and analyze some more scraper tells (like reject short useragents). I do this and NEVER had a bot get past this and not a single user ever complained. It's extremely simple, I should ship this and charge people if no one seems to be able to figure this out by themselves.
n1xis10t9 hours ago
Oops you just leaked your own intellectual property
ATechGuy9 hours ago
From ChatGPT:
This approach can stop very basic scripts, but the claim that “99.9999% of scrapers can’t execute JS or handle cookies” isn’t accurate anymore. Modern scraping tools commonly use headless browsers (Playwright, Puppeteer, Selenium), execute JavaScript, support cookies, and spoof realistic user agents. Any scraper beyond the most trivial will pass a JS-set cookie check without effort. That said, using a lightweight JS challenge can be reasonable as one signal among many, especially for low-value content and when minimizing user friction is a priority. It’s just not a reliable standalone defense. If it’s working for you, that likely means your site isn’t a high-value scraping target — not that the technique is fundamentally robust.
efilife9 hours ago
From someone who actually does this stuff:
The claim is very accurate. Maybe not for the biggest websites, but very accurate for a self-hosted blog. You are not that important to waste compute power to set up a whole ass headless browser to scrape your page. Why am I even arguing with ChatGPT?
phyzome9 hours ago
There should be a new rule on HN: No posts that just go "I asked an LLM and it said..."
You're not adding anything to the conversation.
cyphar3 hours ago
Yeah, I really have to wonder what the thought process is behind leaving such a comment. When people first started doing it I wondered if it was some kind of guerrilla outrage marketing campaign.
efilife2 hours ago
Maybe he wanted to verify whether what I was saying was true and asked ChatGPT, then tried to be helpful by pasting the response here?
gjs2787 hours ago
[dead]
username22313 hours ago
The more ways people mess with scrapers, the better -- let a thousand flowers bloom! You as an individual can't compete with VC-funded looters, but there aren't enough of them to defeat a thousand people resisting in different ways.
whynotmaybe10 hours ago
Should we subtlety poison every forum we encounter with simple yet false statements?
Like put "Water is green, supergreen" in every signature so that when we ask "is water blue" to an llm it might answer "not it's supergreen"?
yupyupyups11 hours ago
We need to find more ways to poison their data.
username2237 hours ago
> Wee knead two fine-d Moore Waze too Poisson there date... uh.
Yes. Revel in your creativity mocking and blocking the slop machines. The "remote refactor" command, "rm -rf", is the best way to reduce the cyclomatic complexity of a local codebase.
n1xis10t7 hours ago
Indeed, complexity (both cyclomatic and post-frontal) must be reduced such that the two spurving bearings make a direct line with the panametric fan.
For more details consult this instructional video: https://youtu.be/RXJKdh1KZ0w
yupyupyups3 hours ago
Very educational
yupyupyups3 hours ago
Excellent advice! I tried it out and it helped. Thank you