diggan4 hours ago
Made a transcript generated by whisper, for us who likes reading rather than listening :) Also added a summary by GPT 5 Pro for the lazies out there: https://gist.github.com/victorb/ef2550a55860023b9179dc835775...
Danborg22 minutes ago
Thank you for doing this.
kiririn2 hours ago
Still maintaining a Laravel 3 project. Barely made it 2 years before maintainability became a nightmare and the only upgrade path was complete rewrite. Projects written without an opinionated framework easily sail past 10 years of comfy maintainability
ianhawesan hour ago
Laravel 3 and Laravel 4 were released in ~2012. The upgrade from Laravel 4 to 5 (released Oct 2013) is probably the biggest hurdle, but you can likely upgrade from Laravel 5 to Laravel 12 in a week or sooner with Laravel Shift.
jt21902 minutes ago
[delayed]
dham2 hours ago
We started on Rails 3.2 and on Rails 8 now. Some upgrades were harder than others, but they never warranted anything close a rewrite.
kiririnan hour ago
Not a Ruby/Rails person, but from a quick look there are still APIs named exactly the same between those versions. Very nice to see
On the other hand, Laravel decided to change from snake_case to CamelCase between versions 3 and 4, just because. Literally 0% compatibility
gkedzierski39 minutes ago
They also completely changed the project structure recently, which made 100% of previous tutorials and examples on the internet obsolete.
conradfr2 hours ago
Apparently version 3 was released in 2012 though.
Is it even running on a still supported PHP version?
kiririnan hour ago
It's on PHP 7.4, so between RHEL and CloudLinux there's another few years left in it, before I weigh up rewrite vs another round of hacking modern PHP support into Laravel 3
iamcreasy21 hours ago
It was interesting to hear that Laravel, Drupal, Wordpress and Symfony communities do not mesh. I wonder why.
yurishimo3 hours ago
As someone who came to Laravel from WordPress, I had a massive hole in my abilities to understand larger systems as a whole. During my tenure in WordPress, I actually got pretty good at the web native parts of modern web development but my “backend” skills were mostly about passing arrays around and doing simple database operations. Basic concepts like MVC were totally foreign to me and I was reminded of this a few months ago when I chatted with an old friend about their experiences with Laravel after the drama in WP land a few months back. When I told him that Models were not anything special and you didn’t need to scaffold out a Model using Laravel to create your own class against an existing table, his mind was blown and I could see the gears starting to turn. Mind you, this is a very successful solopreneur with a thriving theme business/platform and over a decade of experience; just that xp was in a domain set apart from the discipline of modern software engineering.
I’m super happy to have spent that time learning how to work with constraints to build absolutely giant systems (had a stint with an agency that worked for big online publishers that are known for using WP…) but after seeing the other side, I’m also happy to be past that and onto different and more interesting things.
ahofmann5 hours ago
Laravel and Symfony is interesting, because Laravel sits on top of Symfony and releases of Laravel sometimes wait for releases of Symfony components.
pbowyer5 hours ago
The Laravel and Symfony communities are culturally very different. Laravel (and Taylor) are very US-American, Symfony (and Fabien) very European, and it comes through in communication style and presentation. Laravel has a share of users building products to sell to other Laravel users; Symfony doesn't. If I caricature, Laravel users are better at making money (as a Symfony user the social media presence looks like "grifting"); Symfony users at being architecture astronauts (and looking down on people "getting things done").
At a high level the WordPress community doesn't mesh because of having the WordPress way of doing things, and having a history of writing for old versions of PHP years after others have moved on and told users to upgrade. The WordPress community is fragmented into separate sub-communities which again don't mesh. There's the users who only build sites with page builders and hardly know how to code, those whose goal is to sell copies of their paid plugin (or hosting services), and those with permission to make changes to WordPress itself.
I've no recent experience of Drupal so can't comment on them.
no_wizard38 minutes ago
I did PHP development for awhile, at 2 different places. One was a Laravel shop, the other was Symfony.
My biggest takeaway is Laravel is fast to get up and going with and ship something, while Symfony actually scales and is far more easily maintainable
If I were to choose building an app I expect to last I’d choose Symfony every time
flakeoil3 hours ago
Laravel builds on Symfony so it is in some way natural that more real products/applications are released based on Laravel than on pure Symfony. Laravel has more functions built in and more practical packages for real use cases. Developing a similar app based on Symfony would require much more work.
thinkingtoilet3 hours ago
The Wordpress community doesn't even mesh with the Wordpress community, let alone any other ones.
conradfr4 hours ago
Lesson 1: use Symfony components
thinkingtoilet2 hours ago
More like:
Lesson 1: Use the best tools available.
There's a reason why Laravel is more popular than Symfony.
bakugoan hour ago
> There's a reason why Laravel is more popular than Symfony.
Yes, and that reason is being more beginner friendly at the cost of pretty much everything else. It's not related to overall quality at all.
purerandomnessan hour ago
... Laravel uses Symfony components.
Also, this is very regional.
Here in Europe, actual, big projects that need to make money use Symfony, not Laravel.
watt4 hours ago
Very poor audio quality, not listenable. Why do folks insist screaming into microphone and overloading the recording where it just nasty clipping?
conradfr4 hours ago
Also not sure what microphone was used but a pop filter would have helped.
diggan3 hours ago
It sounds like some dynamic gain is happening every time he starts talking, and then after ~1 second it gets better. I don't think it's a "missing hardware" issue, just turning down the gain would probably be enough, or tuning the software dynamics if he's using that. Could also be that the podcaster tried doing some normalization across the entire podcast while mastering and fucked it up that way.
coldteaan hour ago
"What 14 years of Sendmail told me about security"
mooreds4 days ago
[audio]