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Your urge to breathe comes from your brain's sensitivity to CO2, which can be trained. In fact, as is also discussed in the book the grandparent mentioned, high sensitivity to CO2 might cause everything from having short breath to full-blown panic attacks.

In other words: Lowering your CO2 sensitivity and learning to breathe slowly by doing breathwork is a skill worth acquiring. Your brain going into panic mode in a comparatively relaxed breathing mode could be an indication that your CO2 sensitivity is rather high.

Just shorten the intervals. It's not a big deal. When I did yoga training in the pramayama (breath work) they started with quite short intervals, and the retention without air in the lungs was skipped at first.

It's completely fine imo and I don't think there's a need to get hung up on details like hitting a prescribed 4-4-4-4. 3-3-0-3 would be ok too.

I also do not find breathwork relaxing, and it's not always meant to be. The Wim Hof method in particular will definitely amp you up and cause some strange feelings. But if you are really having a bad time with it and want to continue, just find some interval that works for you. There is no one right answer for how to do this.

On a personal note, I realized through breathwork that I was taking deep breaths incorrectly for most of my life. Maybe it's my anatomy, but when I take a deep, fast breath, my nostrils constrict and limit the airflow. It was a real breakthrough for me when I learned to focus on my diaphram while flaring my nostrils. The breaths I can take are so much more satisfying.

A breath coach told me that breathing on a timer stresses some people out instead of calming them down. E.g., people who have experienced trauma. Submitting their bodily functions to an outside force's control can be very stressful.

Her approach adapted breathing patterns to listen to your body's internal signals for when to breath in and out.

Yes I always end up yawning/having to breathe through the mouth occasionally when trying to do this kind of thing. Perhaps I just don't get enough air through the nose.

I ended up in the same situation with this 4-7-8 Breathing. Actually with this one the problem for me is that there is no interval between cycles. After first cycle the next inhale starts immediately, and from the visualization you don't know exactly when the first cycle is going to end unless you keep the count yourself. I think after exhale there should be a gap of maybe 1 to catch up. INHALE-HOLD-EXHALE-CATCHTUP - inhaling for 4 counts, holding for 7, exhaling for 8, and catch up 1.

Pages 9 - 14 of the following pdf go into more detail about this aspect of softening breathing mechanics:

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/b68ec804-ba42-4194-b405-d1f...

Don’t a lot about the author. I just came across the doc on Reddit and the practical parts of what’s described checked out.

You can begin with an easier pattern…

Breathing through the nose, in for a count of three and out for five, then repeat.

As long as the outbreath is longer than the inbreath, you will get some effect.

Could also try relaxing first by massaging the Vagus nerve. An easy way to start with that is to massage in a circular motion the skin area in front of the Tragus (front skin flap) on each ear.

You can combine that with the measured breathing for added effect. They both stimulate the Parasympathetic nervous system.

It's supposed to be ratios, not literal seconds. The app should be adjustable for you small lunged people.

I like to start breathing using my own rythm and then after a while the intervals widen naturally and I could then synchronize my breathing with one of the well known patterns but usuallly I don't. If I try to start with e.g. 4-7-8 I have the same problem of going into panic mode and then I am not relaxed at all and heart pulses go up instead of going down.

You should probably start by calming down first, such as lying on your back. Breathe as slowly as you want to for 2 minutes, and then start counting to see how slow your breath is.

I tried imposing structure but whenever I feel you like you say you do, I just revert to the mean. The rule is to not stress your system / mind above a certain threshold.

This is a decent critique: https://geeky.yoga/2021/12/20/breath-book-review/

The most outlandish thing I can remember was about chewing hard gum to fix your teeth, which seems kind of crazy but could be true. I don't remember breathing being posited as a cure to everything, and I also remember plenty of discussion of various studies. It seems quite believable to me that improper breathing causes all sorts of problems. It's possible I'm too credulous, or that you're too incredulous. Who's to say.

Basically the last third of the book is a bibliography. It's filled with tons of scientific references.

You can definitely pass out but that's why you don't do it standing up or driving. And of course if you're doing ice baths there are plenty of ways to screw that up.

But overall if you're laying down doing wim hof breathing, I'd say no.

And of course individuals might have circumstances or conditions that do make it dangerous. They always tell you not to do it if you're pregnant, for example.

Yes, this is the big flaw in an otherwise nice little app. If this were fixed you could use it without looking.

Okay, the exercise shouldn't finish during a breath cycle anymore :)

I think the important thing is only that you exhale longer than you inhale. Inhaling activates SNS, exhaling PNS, the latter is for relaxation. So the more you can tilt that ratio towards exhaling while still breathing comfortably the better

People say that it's a practice.

A few years ago I was determined to practice, and it was hard, and then it became easy, auto-relaxing, like a cheat.

I lost that practice and now it's hard again.

I think GP is right to question technique vs. attention - I think we don't know much about the answer.

But a point I recall in Nestors book is that there isn't really a lot of scientific study on breath - there is much more study on specific diseases, and e.g. teeth have a full profession of study and development that the everyday act of breathing doesn't have (even though these might be highly related!).

<Opinionated> Some of the best references about breath today are not scientific, but written in the oldest books that survived in different cultures - and anyways, how much does the specific mechanism matter?

Watch this space though - science is catching up! </>

There is an option under cue sounds, if you're using a phone I think you might need to take it off silent :) Let me know if that works.

Stress relief, thanks, that makes sense.

It's useful to manipulate your internal states. E.g, intentionally slow down your heart rate when in bed and trying to fall asleep. Or intentionally raise it when you want to feel more alert without using caffeine or doing jumping jacks in the middle of the office.

>unless it cures a condition

cures isn't the right word, but it lets you set conditions in your body once you've practiced for a bit. slow, deep breathing can help you remain calm and focused. inversely, quick, shallow breaths lead to a bit of hyperoxia and can help bring your emotions to a more intense state as well as basically "banking" oxygen for short bursts of physical activity. It's about being in control of your body and mind, and gaining that control through experimentation and observation. There are already a couple examples of the science behind breathwork in this thread but I feel compelled to point out that breath work is the foundation of meditation and practiced meditators have shown truly incredible control over their bodies and emotions.

The primary source of benefits from breathwork is believed to be controlling the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal hormonal axis in the body. These three glands are basically in charge of the body's stress hormones, and those stress hormones are how the body broadcasts to all of its constituent parts what state the body is in and leaves each part to respond appropriately. So in someone with a hyperactive HPA axis you're going to see the immune system overrespond because the body is getting ready to deal with wounds that could become infected, you're going to see the cardiovascular system overrespond to prepare for phsyical exertion, you're going to see the digestive system underrespond because now's not the time to break down that sandwich there's a goddamned bear chasing me, all sorts of ways your body optimizes for emergency mode when the HPA axis is active.

Thing is, what triggers emergency mode has changed a lot as we've developed as a species. Used to be the aforementioned bear. A bear is an emergency, but it's a 5 minute emergency. After 5 minutes it's over and either you survived it or you didn't. Now our lives are so complex and weird that people have emergencies that last decades. Trying to pay the rent with a minimum wage job is arguably an emergency that lasts your entire adult life and the HPA axis is responding to very real fears of having no food, nowhere to live, no social status and other things that matter to us on a biological level. If the HPA pathway remains too active for too long all of those downstream systems I mention earlier start malfunctioning because they've been running permanently in a mode that was only ever intended to be temporary. The ability to consciously take control of that by regulating your breath and focus doesn't just make you feel calmer, it allows those systems that have been redlining for a long time to take their foot off of the gas. It can lower your blood pressure and heart rate, which lowers the risk of heart attack and stroke. Its linked to abatement of symptoms in things as disparate as lupus, irritable bowel syndrome, adhd, dementia and fibromyalgia. Not to mention that people report being happier, less stressed and more engaged with their lives and loved ones with 20 minutes/day of just sitting quietly and paying attention to how their breathing works without actually trying to alter it at all.

tldr - it's linked to relief in several conditions

most of my info (prolly all of it tbh) comes from Dr K's lectures at healthygamer.gg - full disclosure, i don't work for them, i don't get paid by them, they don't know i exist but i am a member who has worked through a couple of their courses. They also have a youtube channel if you want an opportunity to check out some of the info for free.