Hi HN! I’m one of the creators of Burner, a low cost Ethereum hardware wallet designed for gifting. After creating various forms of crypto “cash” (https://kong.cash/, https://offline.cash/) we learned that gifting cryptocurrencies was consistently one of the biggest challenges for holders and enthusiasts.
Burner looks and feels like a colorful gift card, but under the hood it incorporates a secure element chip. You can access its wallet with just an NFC tap, and it works entirely through our (soon to be) open source web app.
There is a lot more to share, like USD II (created by https://www.bridge.xyz/), a stablecoin that we designed to work with Burner without gas, but for now we’re excited to push Burner out the door and start getting feedback from users.
cadillion9 days ago
Man, looking at the comments it's crazy to me that hn's knowledge of a $3T industry hasn't evolved at all in 7 years. For those not in the know, Bridge, the stablecoin partner here, was just purchased by Stripe for $1.1B because they see future cost savings from using stablecoins for global remittances and forex.
https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/10/22/stripe-announces-1-1-b...
It's cool to have some skepticism, but update your beliefs. Scams and illicit transactions in crypto are actually smaller by proportion in all crypto than in USD or other fiat currencies at .3% last year.
https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/2024-crypto-crime-report-in...
This looks like just a secure enclave that you can deposit any crypto onto, so whether you trust the manufacturer of your smart card or credit card or not is up to you. Seems like there are easier ways to run a crypto scam, imo
thereddevil9 days ago
A crypto security firm says that crypto is safer now and we are all supposed to believe it?
Also stablecoins like USDT which is supposed to be backed with USD but has never had an external auditor look at its books are somehow the solution here?
There is a reason crypto is looked at skeptically.
cadillion9 days ago
Why would a crypto security firm be incentivized to tell people there is LESS crime? They want to sell MORE services for hunting down criminals. They are the de facto FBI enforcement arm. If you don't believe them, check the FBI's official numbers:
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/philadelphia/ne...
Tether has public audited reports from BDO Italia S.p.A, the fifth largest independent firm globally, which are made available directly on their website.
https://tether.to/en/transparency/?tab=reports
You can keep your skepticism, but it helps to update your beliefs on new information.
throwaway3141559 days ago
Bold of you to "Show HN:" a crypto project. As best I can tell, this will be use for all the things scam gift cards are typically used for now but more (because now crypto is involved somehow). Your 'stable-coin' doesn't inspire confidence either. Why can't I just gift someone some BTC or ETH? The only reason to include a coin of your own is for a pump and dump.
Really though, this stuff all sounds quite technically difficult. It's surprising to me that people still work on these projects considering it's rather dense subject matter (fin-tech) _and_ it hasn't really proven to be useful for very much in the West.
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
You can just gift ETH. And good news, as a stablecoin backed by dollars USD II is pegged to the dollar so no “pumping” or “dumping”.
thebiglebrewski10 days ago
Interesting...the name of this makes it sound like criminals will be using it to transfer cash around the world, like with gift cards?
Genuinely I'm curious, is there really a big market around gifting crypto, or is that market just sort of a front for criminal activity like why some retailers see a spike in gift card sales?
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
There is a massive trillion dollar market around gifting dollars on gift cards today, but you can typically only use them on Visa and Mastercard networks. We think gifting stablecoins is a better way to do that.
cnowacek9 days ago
Gifting dollars on gift cards today is only supported by 99.9% of retailers. How many retailers accept USD II?
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
It turns out that many people don’t spend the gift cards designated for specific retailers, but rather trade or sell them for cash in their local market.
ktothe9 days ago
Looks interesting, would suggest going with Solana over Ethereum though, especially in 2024.
ETH_start8 days ago
Solana is heavily centralized and doesn't offer any scalability advantage over the new breed of onchain Ethereum rollups like Base.
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
Not opposed to doing a Solana variant!
ETH_start8 days ago
Ethereum is more widely adopted and vastly more robust/decentralized.
rdyplayerB9 days ago
Spent more than 4x as much on my Ledger, and it's far from perfect and def not ideal for gifting crypto. I'm personally supportive of any company/product that wants to make managing crypto easier, safer, and cheaper. Kudos on the launch!
usbsea9 days ago
You avoid a seed phrase, but how? I thought it was "not your keys not your coin".
My understanding is someone who wants secure crypto needs to cryptographically safely generate a seed phrase. For signigicant amounts of money you will want that backed up. I guess if this is like a $50 gift card people are treating it like that and might accept if it gets lost then shrug.
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
Burner comes with a pre-generated key or you can request that it generate a new key with entropy you supply (in part, it's hashed with entropy from multiple sources). In both cases you always need to trust the hardware, but this is true with any hardware wallet.
I would always recommend using a multisig for storing large amounts of funds regardless of the wallet vendor.
usbsea6 days ago
This is a bit like a gift card. Not the worst idea! I have been waiting 10 years to buy a coffee with crypto BTW.
bdcravens9 days ago
Any concern about conceptual namespace collision? The mobile app Burner is a completely different product (not to mention it fits in with the common definition of the term)
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
We considered this, but thus far I’ve only had someone ask me if I’m a Burning Man participant after seeing the logo.
anonzzzies9 days ago
I like it and will sign up for one. What funding did you get to launch this? I cannot find the About etc, however I did find the pages slow to load, so maybe I missed it?
throwawayaghas16 days ago
What’s in it for you? Are there fees involved for the end user to send a gift? If so, how much is it?
pants29 days ago
This is a really cool execution of an idea that's been floating out there a while. Next you just need a bitcoin one in the shape of a coin!
ccamrobertsonop8 days ago
Coins get you into more trouble than cards :)
snypher10 days ago
>That’s why we’ve created USD II – the perfect stablecoin to give with Burner. It’s backed 1:1 with U.S. Dollars held in reserve by our partner, Bridge.
Ah shit, here we go again. Why would I use this?
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
The same reason one would use any other stablecoin like USDC, you want to send dollars to someone.
The added benefit is that you don’t need to be worried about sending ETH as well to use USD II. Put another way, if I gift you a Ledger with USDC today, you as a possible crypto newbie need to work out how to get ETH to move that USDC.
KomoD8 days ago
> Put another way, if I gift you a Ledger with USDC today, you as a possible crypto newbie need to work out how to get ETH to move that USDC.
Or I could just gift them ETH instead of USDC
mplewis10 days ago
You can’t even use an existing stable coin? Not interested.
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
You can! We just don’t feature it in the gift card “optimized” mode since we do not subsidize the gas costs for existing stablecoins.
brokensegue9 days ago
Why wouldn't I gift using a paper wallet?
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
Good question.
We’ve spoken to a lot of people who have done this, and more often than not the recipient in the midst of some life event doesn’t imbue a QR code with value (and loses it/throws it away).
brokensegue9 days ago
hmm. maybe give cash instead then
ccamrobertsonop9 days ago
Maybe, but our first customers are people who want to gift crypto.
KomoD8 days ago
And when your site dies is the crypto gone?
ccamrobertsonop8 days ago
No, great question. We offer an open source SDK library that can interface with chips today (https://github.com/arx-research/libhalo) and will open source the web app.
Both would allow you to interact with Burner entirely offline as well if you use it for cold storage — libHaLo can easily be used with an off the shelf NFC reader through its CLI interface.
not_your_vase10 days ago
Half offtopic note, but maybe you want to know: uBlock origin seems to have a beef with your site - by default it applies enough filters that only a brown background remains.
ccamrobertsonop10 days ago
Hmm, thanks for the report. I use uBlock origin as well but I might have it in some more permissive state...
KomoD8 days ago
Same here.
throwaway31337410 days ago
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throawayonthe9 days ago
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